Hostages held in Sydney cafe, possible by Islamists

[hellheaven1987]

Hostages were being held inside a central Sydney cafe where a black flag with white Arabic writing could be seen in the window, local television showed on Monday, raising fears of an attack linked to Islamic militants.

Australia, which is backing the United States and its escalating action against Islamic State in Syria and Iraq, is on high alert for attacks by radicalized Muslims or by home-grown fighters returning from fighting in the Middle East.

Part of Martin Place, home to the Reserve Bank of Australia, commercial banks and close to the New South Wales (NSW) state parliament, was closed off by armed police.

Live television footage showed patrons inside a cafe standing with their hands pressed against the windows. A black and white flag similar to those used by Islamic State militants in Iraq and Syria was also visible.

NSW Police tweeted: "A police operation is underway in Martin Place, Sydney's CBD. People are advised to avoid the area."

Dozens of police including a SWAT team were setting up and a couple of hundred people were being held back by cordons.

Trains and buses were stopped and roads were blocked in the area, with train operators saying there had been a bomb threat at Martin Place.

Source

Ya, I guess it is 70% sure be an Islamist attack, the more important thing is whether it is done by lone wolf or through some organization.

[GreyFox]

If this truly is IS-types (and given recent arrests in Australia I don't see why this wouldn't be), then have a sinking feeling that this isn't going to end well.

[mongrel]

Source

Ya, I guess it is 70% sure be an Islamist attack, the more important thing is whether it is done by lone wolf or through some organization.

I think it is safe to bump that up to 100% and to suggest that is linked entirely to the goings on in Syria. It will test Australia's no ransom policy for sure.

[hellheaven1987]

I think it is safe to bump that up to 100% and to suggest that is linked entirely to the goings on in Syria.

Well, it is all too soon to tell; perhaps someone wants to act like it is Islamist, who knows.

[Copperknickers II]

I think it is safe to bump that up to 100% and to suggest that is linked entirely to the goings on in Syria. It will test Australia's no ransom policy for sure.

I don't think so, on either of those points. The recent attack in Canada had all the hallmarks of an Islamist attack, but it wasn't really, at least not in a meaningful sense. It was a disenfranchised man who was venting his anger and decided to do so in the name of Islamism.

The flag, and the rather professional execution of the attack, would seem to state otherwise here, but it could still be a lone wolf with no meaningful association with Islamist organisations. And as for the ransom... I highly doubt money is a major concern here. They've made no attempt to ask for it as far as we can tell.


EDIT: breaking news: probably only 1 assailant, almost certainly no other connected events, according to the police statement. The flag is probably Islamist, but not Islamic State.

There is also a possibility that the gunman has been caught on camera. He seems to be a large middle aged Arab/South Asian gentleman armed with a pistol.

[Swiss Army Cheese]

Hatefull!? Explain yourself! What is hatefull about opposing theocratic fascim? The stoning of women? The murder of "non believers"? The disgusting punishments inflected on those unlucky enought to oppose these reched concepts that are forced on them by Imams? No. Being a citizen of a republic brings with it the civic duty of opposing these repressive systems at any cost! And I greatly disregard these naive notions held by this generation of naiv leftists who ally themselves with murderous fascists thugs, simply because it is "anti-american", whilest those people are in fact Anti - everything a modernc, civilised and democratic society stands for.

What is hateful about opposing theocratic fascism you ask? That depends on the sturdieness of the grounds of the person opposing such a concept. If one were to have a passionite dislike for either fascists states or theocracies, then I would describe that passion of one that is being "hateful"

EDIT: breaking news: probably only 1 assailant, almost certainly no other connected events, according to the police statement. The flag is probably Islamist, but not Islamic State.

There is also a possibility that the gunman has been caught on camera. He seems to be a large middle aged Arab/South Asian gentleman armed with a pistol.

Spoiler for "BIG PICTURE: 

Interesting. This man really doesn't fit the description of the typical Australian fighting for the Islamic State - all of our volunteers serving in the Islamic State's foreign legion are true-blue homegrown Aussies of a younger generation. So either that man is not actually associated with the Islamic State or the Islamic State is getting smart with us by deploying opperatives who don't look like the average Australian in Iraq.

[Copperknickers II]

What is hateful about opposing theocratic fascism you ask? That depends on the sturdieness of the grounds of the person opposing such a concept. If one were to have a passionite dislike for either fascists states or theocracies, then I would describe that passion of one that is being "hateful"


Interesting. This man really doesn't fit the description of the typical Australian fighting for the Islamic State - all of our volunteers serving in the Islamic State's foreign legion are true-blue homegrown Aussies of a younger generation. So either that man is not actually associated with the Islamic State or the Islamic State is getting smart with us by deploying opperatives who don't look like the average Australian in Iraq.

:Breaking news again:

The suspect is Man Haron Manis, an Islamic cleric from Iran granted asylum in Australia. He's a well known nutcase: he was done a while back for sending abusive messages to the families of deceased Australian soldiers, and has a substantial police record for violent offences. I still doubt he's in any sort of contact with IS other than heeding their call for lone wolf attacks: he got their flag wrong ffs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh_Haron

[Abdülmecid I]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh_Haron

Well that doesn't make any sense at all. According to the wiki page, he's a Shia, as most Iranians are, but he wants an ISIS flag?! Even the craziest mujahedin knows that ISIS is a sunni, not a shia organization. Perhaps he wants a proper ISIS flag, so he can burn it, not wave it.

[YukonTrooper]

Maybe Australia should supply the ground troops for the fight against IS and eventually Assad. They haven't carried enough weight in the West's fight against terrorism. Time for Oz to step up.

[Roma_Victrix]

Maybe Australia should supply the ground troops for the fight against IS and eventually Assad. They haven't carried enough weight in the West's fight against terrorism. Time for Oz to step up.

According to this site, there have been 41 Australian servicemen who died in Afghanistan, 2 in Iraq, but these numbers do not count the Australian veterans who returned home and, due to crippling PTSD, committed suicide like a lot of American soldiers. I think everyone has suffered enough, thank you very much. I'm quite content with bombing the daylights out of ISIS from the air via drones and fighter jets, while the Iraqi, Syrian, and Kurdish forces duke it out with ISIS fighters on the streets and in the open fields. Let the locals do the ground fighting. It is not our responsibility to drain our resources to fight their civil war. Isn't $6 trillion from the US treasury (of taxpayer's money) enough money drained into these wars already? It's costly enough to drop bombs on their heads; each one of those warheads is enormously expensive. Even more expensive, apparently, is the US Navy's new laser canon (check that out via Google if you haven't already).

[mongrel]

According to this site, there have been 41 Australian servicemen who died in Afghanistan, 2 in Iraq, but these numbers do not count the Australian veterans who returned home and, due to crippling PTSD, committed suicide like a lot of American soldiers. I think everyone has suffered enough, thank you very much. I'm quite content with bombing the daylights out of ISIS from the air via drones and fighter jets, while the Iraqi, Syrian, and Kurdish forces duke it out with ISIS fighters on the streets and in the open fields. Let the locals do the ground fighting. It is not our responsibility to drain our resources to fight their civil war. Isn't $6 trillion from the US treasury (of taxpayer's money) enough money drained into these wars already? It's costly enough to drop bombs on their heads; each one of those warheads is enormously expensive. Even more expensive, apparently, is the US Navy's new laser canon (check that out via Google if you haven't already).

NATO policy on the whole region is totally messed up. It's governments want to wage war against Assad but can't. We are bombing some of his enemies and not others. People can freely join Kurdish militia, but not anti Assad or pro-Assad militia, or indeed cannot offer any form of aid to either side without risk of imprisonment /rendition. ISIS has spilled into Iraq, that would clearly make them enemy combatants. But I have not seen a coherent argument as to why we can be asked about any random group targeting the forces of a dictatator who our governments believe should be removed. Now we have frustrated wannabes using this chaos, and the media storm around this as an excuse to make a name for themselves.

Yeah, it's not like we've supported the US against terrorism since 2001. Do you exist in some alternate universe where the last 13 years is something that hasn't happened?

True. I am surprised anyone thinks otherwise.

[Niles Crane]

Lol at everyone saying this situation could have been resolved in a few minutes like it's some action movie.

Maybe Australia should supply the ground troops for the fight against IS and eventually Assad. They haven't carried enough weight in the West's fight against terrorism. Time for Oz to step up.

Yeah, it's not like we've supported the US against terrorism since 2001. Do you exist in some alternate universe where the last 13 years is something that hasn't happened?

[SLN445]

Hopefully everybody comes out ok.

[Ecthelion]

The religion of peace has culturally enriched again.

I think it's time for our hippie Pope to call forth a new Crusade. The entire American South will answer the call; this will be their "happening". We don't even need a supply train, the "preppers" can just bring all their cans for spam and water purification tablets.

Deus Vult people, Deus Vult.

[Copperknickers II]

The religion of peace has culturally enriched again.

I think it's time for our hippie Pope to call forth a new Crusade. The entire American South will answer the call; this will be their "happening". We don't even need a supply train, the "preppers" can just bring all their cans for spam and water purification tablets.

Deus Vult people, Deus Vult.

A Crusade.... to Australia? Right, the infidel Islamists of Sydney must be massacred. All 1 of them.

[Phier]

The religion of peace has culturally enriched again.

I think it's time for our hippie Pope to call forth a new Crusade. The entire American South will answer the call; this will be their "happening". We don't even need a supply train, the "preppers" can just bring all their cans for spam and water purification tablets.

Deus Vult people, Deus Vult.

Copperknickers missed the joke, such as it was, but ...

[Adar]

The religion of peace has culturally enriched again.

I think it's time for our hippie Pope to call forth a new Crusade. The entire American South will answer the call; this will be their "happening". We don't even need a supply train, the "preppers" can just bring all their cans for spam and water purification tablets.

Deus Vult people, Deus Vult.

Do you want the terrorists to win? Because that is exactly how you help them to win.

The reason it is so hard to fight islamist terror is that we have a very small number of extremists hiding among a large mass of far more agreeable muslims. Declaring a crusade will only serve to increase the number of muslims who side with the terrorists or at least respect them enough to not report them to the authorities.

What we actually want to do is to create a society where muslim members of the community are integrated enough to report any extremist activity to the police. This happen frequently and in the case of the infamous underwear bomber even his father reported him to CIA. What we need to do is just to ensure that it happen even more frequently and that we got the resources necessary to deal with it.

[Kraut and Tea]

Do you want the terrorists to win? Because that is exactly how you help them to win.

The reason it is so hard to fight islamist terror is that we have a very small number of extremists hiding among a large mass of far more agreeable muslims. Declaring a crusade will only serve to increase the number of muslims who side with the terrorists or at least respect them enough to not report them to the authorities.

That Idea is ridicilous.

This filth spread arround the world being funded, supported and spread by Saudis, Quataris, Pakistanis and others.

And I would hardly call the 30 000 - 40 000 people currently going on a rape and pillage tour through Syria a "minority".

This minority gibberish is nothing but a myth.

One only need to look at statistics and polls to confirm that most people in the islamic world approve of measures such as chopping of peoples heads for leaving Islam.

90% of Egyptian women have mutilated genitals, now 90% isnt exactly what anyone would call a minority and for such a garstly practice to be widespread there must be social acceptance of it.

There is a cultural notion of authoritarian theocracy which is widespread within the muslim world and the simple fact that seperation between church and state is not possible in the minds of these people.

A problem that has existed for centuries.

And to suggest that this is merely a phase, imposed on 1 billion people by a "minority" is simply and illusion.

What we actually want to do is to create a society where muslim members of the community are integrated enough to report any extremist activity to the police. This happen frequently and in the case of the infamous underwear bomber even his father reported him to CIA. What we need to do is just to ensure that it happen even more frequently and that we got the resources necessary to deal with it.

Wishfull thinking.

[Papay]

That Idea is ridicilous.

This filth spread arround the world being funded, supported and spread by Saudis, Quataris, Pakistanis and others.

And I would hardly call the 30 000 - 40 000 people currently going on a rape and pillage tour through Syria a "minority".

This minority gibberish is nothing but a myth.

One only need to look at statistics and polls to confirm that most people in the islamic world approve of measures such as chopping of peoples heads for leaving Islam.

90% of Egyptian women have mutilated genitals, now 90% isnt exactly what anyone would call a minority and for such a garstly practice to be widespread there must be social acceptance of it.

There is a cultural notion of authoritarian theocracy which is widespread within the muslim world and the simple fact that seperation between church and state is not possible in the minds of these people.

A problem that has existed for centuries.

And to suggest that this is merely a phase, imposed on 1 billion people by a "minority" is simply and illusion.


Wishfull thinking.

Well Jews mutilate their organs at a 100% percentage

[Adar]

That Idea is ridicilous.

This filth spread arround the world being funded, supported and spread by Saudis, Quataris, Pakistanis and others.

And I would hardly call the 30 000 - 40 000 people currently going on a rape and pillage tour through Syria a "minority".

This minority gibberish is nothing but a myth.

One only need to look at statistics and polls to confirm that most people in the islamic world approve of measures such as chopping of peoples heads for leaving Islam.

90% of Egyptian women have mutilated genitals, now 90% isnt exactly what anyone would call a minority and for such a garstly practice to be widespread there must be social acceptance of it.

There is a cultural notion of authoritarian theocracy which is widespread within the muslim world and the simple fact that seperation between church and state is not possible in the minds of these people.

A problem that has existed for centuries.

And to suggest that this is merely a phase, imposed on 1 billion people by a "minority" is simply and illusion.


Wishfull thinking.

So 30 - 40 000 people in the Middle East out of 1 billion people is not a minority?

And it get even better considering that my "wishful thinking" already happen as we know that decent muslims such as Umaru Muttallab are willing to report terrorists.

There are definitely a lot of muslim extremists who need to be monitored and/or dealt with. But your is only serves as another justification for them to claim that muslims are persecuted and that jihad is justified. I support the bombing of ISIS, I support harsh measures against any muslim congregation hosting radical preachers and I support potential terrorists being monitored. But calling for crusades and general persecution is retarded and there is no way around that fact unless you wish to implement an authoritan state just as bad as what you claim to fight against.