China bans Islamic veil in Xinjiang city Urumqi

[hellheaven1987]

Urumqi is the capital and largest city in Xinjiang.

The Islamic face veil is to be banned in public in the capital of China's restive Xinjiang region, home to its Uighur Muslim minority.

The ban was backed by local authorities in Urumqi, state media reported.

The move is the latest in a campaign against Islamic clothing and symbols in the mainly Muslim region.

China's government has blamed Uighur militants for several recent attacks - but activists say the violence has been fuelled by Chinese repression.

The Uighurs traditionally practice a moderate form of Islam. Recently, though, the influence of stricter forms of the faith from the Gulf and Pakistan has led to more women covering their faces.

According to the BBC's Asia Pacific editor, Charles Scanlon, the Chinese authorities regard wearing an Islamic face veil as an act of defiance at a time of growing violence in the region.

In August this year, the northern city of Karamay banned men with long beards from boarding buses.

Some experts believe such restrictions could backfire at a time when many Uighurs believe their culture is under attack.

James Leibold, an expert on China's ethnic policy at Melbourne's La Trobe University, told Reuters news agency that the ban on the veils would make them "more popular as a symbol of resistance and assertion of ethno-national identity".

He is quoted as saying that China's Communist party had made a direct link between certain Islamic dress styles and religious extremism.

The law passed in Urumqi is set to come into force after it has been approved by a regional body.

China's authorities have attributed a wave of recent violence, some of which has targeted civilians in public places, to Uighur militants inspired or aided by overseas terror groups.

It has launched a crackdown in the region, arresting and jailing scores of people.

But Uighur activists say that China's strong-arm tactics in Xinjiang - including cultural and religious repression - are fuelling tensions.

Source

Personally I find it is a stupid move as it probably would stir up the anxiety of culture identity within Muslim population instead keep it down, especially when Beijing tries to enforce some sore of military rule in Xinjiang that reminds me how Israel tries to control West Bank now. But it is Chinese, so I am not too surprised they would act like this afterall.

[Sharukinu]

Nice move. Let these poor women see the light, and let there be no more Islamic suppression of the feminine character.

Recently, though, the influence of stricter forms of the faith from the Gulf and Pakistan has led to more women covering their faces.

The Gulf?

Hmm, I wonder how much money does the BBC receive from those on the western shore of "the Gulf".

[Copperknickers II]

Nice move. Let these poor women see the light, and let there be no more Islamic suppression of the feminine character.



The Gulf?

Hmm, I wonder how much money does the BBC receive from those on the western shore of "the Gulf".

Well probably not much, seeing as it's state funded.

[O'Hea]

Because history has proven that banning religious practices is super effective at making them go away

[Phier]

Because history has proven that banning religious practices is super effective at making them go away

Its been pretty effective in many Islamic nations.

[General Maximus]

Because history has proven that banning religious practices is super effective at making them go away

Well, what happened to Rome after so many emperors banned Christianity. In the end it gained more favour from the people. Not comparing it to China, but I find it weird how after over 15 centuries of Buddhism and over 25 of Confucianism, with their height of power and glory being attached to that, Chinese people find it so easy and are keen to crush all culture and religion (which are marks of civilization). Not that they have any voice in the government anyway.

Although it did work under Islamic nations. If the other religions hadn't been brutally persecuted under them, you wouldn't see Iran being anything other than Zoroastrian. Or the Egyptian and Libeo-Tunisian Christians.

[alhoon]

Nice move. Let these poor women see the light, and let there be no more Islamic suppression of the feminine character.

I would agree with you but... many muslim women in Xinjiang would disagree.

Because history has proven that banning religious practices is super effective at making them go away

Yazidi faith is banned through genocide in IS places. And it proved to be effective. Christian practices are also suppressed in Afghanistan under the Taliban. How many Christians are left there?

Why is it that repressive governments keep doing the same mistakes over and over again, expecting different results...?

Because they were pretty effective in the past? Before the internet and the globalization of the news? Before the oppressed masses realized that there is a different path than cultural oblivion and religious intolerance?

[Dr Zoidberg]

This is such a stupid move. Much of the resentment and anger at Beijing in Xinjiang comes from the fact that the local Uyghurs feel their culture is being suppressed. This sort of blanket ruling will only increase that feeling amongst the populace.

[Sharukinu]

This is such a stupid move. Much of the resentment and anger at Beijing in Xinjiang comes from the fact that the local Uyghurs feel their culture is being suppressed. This sort of blanket ruling will only increase that feeling amongst the populace.

No civilised person would be shedding tears over the loss of their inferior culture. Hats off to the Chinese.

[Dr Zoidberg]

No civilised person would be shedding tears over the loss of their inferior culture. Hats off to the Chinese.

So if the Chinese were to arrive in your neck of the woods, declare your culture inferior and then proceed to suppress your ways through authoritarian means, you'd be ok with that?

[AqD]

So if the Chinese were to arrive in your neck of the woods, declare your culture inferior and then proceed to suppress your ways through authoritarian means, you'd be ok with that?

Except it's not your culture. You're not born with a culture. Your families and everyone surrounding you push that onto you, telling you it's great and you should happily embrace it despite the obvious fact that there is no way it could possibly benefit you and all it could give you are prejudice, stupidity, pain and suffering.

People who brainwash their kids to believe and teach them to fight for it are worse than the cruel and authoritarian government seeking to ban it.

[Mementomoridc]

Except it's not your culture. You're not born with a culture. Your families and everyone surrounding you push that onto you, telling you it's great and you should happily embrace it despite the obvious fact that there is no way it could possibly benefit you and all it could give you are prejudice, stupidity, pain and suffering.

People who brainwash their kids to believe and teach them to fight for it are worse than the cruel and authoritarian government seeking to ban it.

I have no idea where you came up with this. What you just said is like if your family and neighbors and who around you thought rape was bad, that by telling you it is they are brainwashing you. Everyone will pick up something from the people they grew up with and some stuff they will disagree with but saying it is brainwashing is just stupid.

[tarvu]

No civilised person would be shedding tears over the loss of their inferior culture. Hats off to the Chinese.

Pucker up for a hot injection of some good old fashioned American multiculturalism.

We are superior to your inferior Canadian culture clearly, and likely have already made significant inroads in supplanting it. Down with your ethnic and national traditions!

Eat some political correctness! As such you shouldn't be referring to Uyghur as inferior being that you are most likely a white devil (the new proper term you must refer to yourself as per my American "multi culti" dictum as your cultural better).

[athanaric]

This is such a stupid move. Much of the resentment and anger at Beijing in Xinjiang comes from the fact that the local Uyghurs feel their culture is being suppressed. This sort of blanket ruling will only increase that feeling amongst the populace.

That would be hypocritical though since religious veils aren't really a part of Uyghur culture, in fact it says right there in the article that it's a fad from Arabia, and thus even more alien to actual Uyghur culture than Chinese influence is. Of course, people are rarely rational when it comes to these matters...

Another aspect to consider is safety concerns. Burqas and Niqabs make it extra difficult for police to track ciminal offenders, and criminals know that.

Because that's totally comparable to telling a nation of millions who follow a religion practiced by 1.5 billion people that they aren't allowed to observe a fast with a thousand-year history.

Yes, morally it's totally comparable. Your argument is just an "appeal to tradition" type fallacy.

[Roma_Victrix]

That would be hypocritical though since religious veils aren't really a part of Uyghur culture, in fact it says right there in the article that it's a fad from Arabia, and thus even more alien to actual Uyghur culture than Chinese influence is. Of course, people are rarely rational when it comes to these matters...

Another aspect to consider is safety concerns. Burqas and Niqabs make it extra difficult for police to track ciminal offenders, and criminals know that.


Yes, morally it's totally comparable. Your argument is just an "appeal to tradition" type fallacy.

Precisely. Central Asian Muslims in general are very lax when it comes to following the various rules of Islam. They see them more as guidelines, really (especially when it comes to alcohol, as they devour Russian vodka), and most of them don't care to cover up like the Arabs. In secular countries like Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan, Muslim women frequently choose not to wear the veil. Almost none of them do when you get into the big cities like Almaty in Kazakhstan or Bishkek in Kyrgyzstan. Some people who wear the veil in an urban environment are sometimes even shunned by their Muslim peers for trying to look Arab (no joke, I've seen this in Kyrgyzstan with my own eyes). People down further south in Tajikistan are a little bit more religiously conservative, but even they look like blasphemous hedonists compared to their strict puritan Persian brothers in Iran. The Uyghurs, Turkic brothers to the Kyrgyz, Kazakhs, Turkmen, and Uzbeks, basically share the same attitude, although they have some extremists in their ranks thanks to their peculiar situation of ethnic nationalism against the Chinese government. It's the sort of religious ethnic nationalism that reminds me much of the Irish Republican Army (IRA) fighting the British in Northern Ireland, seeking independence and reunification of their peoples.

[hellheaven1987]

They see them more as guidelines, really (especially when it comes to alcohol, as they devour Russian vodka), and most of them don't care to cover up like the Arabs.

Technically Islam is viewed as a cultural identity instead a religious identity in Central Asia and SEA, which is why it is tricky to deal Islam in those region as touching those issues would often viewed by locals as an attempt of cultural genocide. On the other hand the good side is that Islam is often just a symbolic icon among those cultures, hence it is often not practicing very hard in real life (sure there would be one or two nuts, but even in "largest" Muslim state Indonesia the amount of international infamous Islamists is surprisingly very low, comparing with the Islamists of Arabic states of Middle East).

[O'Hea]

Yes, morally it's totally comparable. Your argument is just an "appeal to tradition" type fallacy.

I'd be appealing to tradition if I said "people have fasted for a long time, so you should fast too." My argument is that ramadan is both popular and relatively harmless, so putting political pressure on it is self-defeating.

How is it not? What difference does it make if one person believes in imaginary friends vs. billions believing in imaginary friends?
At least the one guy with imaginary friends is being creative and edgy.

The difference is that one case is a single dude asking for exemption from a long-standing law (one that is at least theoretically aimed at 'protecting the public' because people don't like seeing strangers' junk in the streets). The other is making new laws specifically targeted at the inoffensive practices of a large and long-established minority group. The fact that they both originally got their ideas from imaginary friends is irrelevant from the perspective of someone who thinks people should generally be allowed to do what they want in life.

[Ecthelion]

I'd be appealing to tradition if I said "people have fasted for a long time, so you should fast too." My argument is that ramadan is both popular and relatively harmless, so putting political pressure on it is self-defeating.

The difference is that one case is a single dude asking for exemption from a long-standing law (one that is at least theoretically aimed at 'protecting the public' because people don't like seeing strangers' junk in the streets). The other is making new laws specifically targeted at the inoffensive practices of a large and long-established minority group. The fact that they both originally got their ideas from imaginary friends is irrelevant from the perspective of someone who thinks people should generally be allowed to do what they want in life.

The veil has a very practical dimension.
Why do you think bank robbers wear ski masks?

If I wanted to commit a horrible violent crime in a Muslim country, I'd just cross dress in a full on head to toe burka, zero suspicious, zero identification.

[Aanker]

Why is it that repressive governments keep doing the same mistakes over and over again, expecting different results...?

[Sharukinu]

If I were a person who followed a barbaric, sexist, and oppressive culture, then yes, I would be ok with that. I would even invite the Chinese to teach my people a lesson or two about civilisation.