Better Aggresive CAI for Rome 2 V 3.5 Official Release - Patch 17

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

Yep, radious, vv, dei, even wrath of gods , its should be compatible. I try download latest version of AIO tonight and see the problem , perhaps Sir Len added something i dont know. Happy holiday as well

[Alekho]

Relevant: I see Toon's AllInOne does not exist anymore. Is Wars of the Gods a rebranding of that mod?

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

Yep it is ^^

[babaikasc]

Hello Junaidi,
I've returned to the game after the long break and your updated mod for latest DEI was one of the main reasons. While playing as Rome I have noticed one strange problem that I believe could be related to your mod. I have tried to use normal or easy versions but getting same results. When battle starts and AI uses many stacks game in most cases crashes after battle loading screen. Some times battle starts and I can hear music or units selection or even menu opened/closed but loading screen keep displayed so all what I can do is to terminate the game. Battle seems starts without issues when your mod is deactivated. Few posts above I have noticed people complained about reforms not being triggered because of the changes to the camera mod part. For me it was fine to enable/disable mod to trigger reforms but to do this before big battles is not really fun. Could you please tell me how I can try to disable this change to check if battles will start properly? Any help would be appreciated.
With kind regards and thanks for the great efforts and work.

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

Hi. I'm using War of the Gods, and it's probably the latest version as I got it quite recently. Only War of the Gods and your mod - nothing more. So maybe they are not compatible yet. but anyway, your mod should work fine on vanilla, right?
I might add a few unit packs for spice, and try it out.
To tell you the truth, I never join allies in war. Only rarely... I like the AI to come at me directly.

Ok, I'll wait some more.

Happy Holidays!

Seem latest version work with current save game you gave to me, already looking on the problem. I think i quite understand the problem is
1. You still in Imperium lvl 2 with bonus + 15 for diplomacy
2. From what i see, most of the current faction fall under your coalition, no wonder the AI didnt dare to declare war to you right now, as long you maintain the status quo
3.With the current income right now, another 10 turn you will have enough money to buy most of AI faction to fall under your leagues, its do possible to achieve victory without conquering at all.As long you maintain the Imperium level as low as you can.
4.Even there is faction dare to declare war with you , usually they will try to asking peace since they also need to face againt your ally, also with your current money, buying peace is also possible. Keeping the politic stay in your favour

Can the situation finally change ?
Yes its can , AI also have the same level imperium like Human, the more size they grew the less diplomacy bonus they get, meaning the more tense the situation.

Your case was quite interesting one, i do understand its may be possible to blunder the Imperium gap i left inside the mod , as you understand back in vanilla, each culture have default hate againt certain culture, like barbarian hate rome , etc, etc, so most of the scenario will also be the same,3-4 faction barbarian united and make war coaltion againt rome , etc etc.

So in BACAI i do try to remove it and lets the AI made their own decision based on their current situation, anyways i decided will roll back the change because i just learned how easy one blunder the AI via diplomacy using Imperium lvl 1 and Lvl 2 as the bridge. None of this trick show may possible if in the early game you dont get +30 or + 15 on diplomacy bonus that enable AI and You build so many trade network. And snowballing buying friend in the process.

Thanks for the input Sir Hoplite will try to work and update current BACAI again.

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

Hello Junaidi,
I've returned to the game after the long break and your updated mod for latest DEI was one of the main reasons. While playing as Rome I have noticed one strange problem that I believe could be related to your mod. I have tried to use normal or easy versions but getting same results. When battle starts and AI uses many stacks game in most cases crashes after battle loading screen. Some times battle starts and I can hear music or units selection or even menu opened/closed but loading screen keep displayed so all what I can do is to terminate the game. Battle seems starts without issues when your mod is deactivated. Few posts above I have noticed people complained about reforms not being triggered because of the changes to the camera mod part. For me it was fine to enable/disable mod to trigger reforms but to do this before big battles is not really fun. Could you please tell me how I can try to disable this change to check if battles will start properly? Any help would be appreciated.
With kind regards and thanks for the great efforts and work.

Sorry i have been spent most of my time tinkering Attila version,I think DEI have updated again, the problem may coming from the wrong value that may resulting in crash on battle. I do plan to update current BACAI for Rome 2 again today, especially look to update Dei and War of the Gods as well.
You can help me by uploading the save game prior the crash battle , its will help me greatly on looking the core problem , since i dont need to generate the bug anymore.

[babaikasc]

Junaidi,
here is the link to my save file:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1...EpYUzFhbUV5T0U
Battle works without mod being activated and does not work when it is activated. Hope this will help.
Thanks in advance for your help and support.

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

You welcome babikasc ,For Sir Hoplite of Ilis i already got some of fresh idea to solve the current problem without even need to disable the current bonus, trully your save game will be instrumental to test this current tweak

I do remember C.A do have some kind of feature like Eu4 for late game inside rome 2 engine, in BACAI i do disable the bomb but i can reenable it back again and set the timer countdown and the bomb explode on turn 60 for example.

Back in early BACAI development i try to disable it since its bring more damaged then goods, since i dont know how to use it properly, especially back there diplomacy on BACAI part was never reach 3.4 state where AI can work between trade and war and other alliance, hell even on turn 1 the AI already hack each other, so in order to not add more damaged by painting all faction with red face i try to disable it and let the AI choice his own way.

But in the future, we finally know that its was possible to create a loophole inside the BACAI by exploring the early diplomacy bonus and maintain huge trade network, so time bomb is require to potentialy cancel this effect.In Shogun 2 we call it "Realm Divide"

Here the scenario :
- I cheat the money and only maintain small but prosper kingdom with good attitude and strong diplomacy power,nobody can touch me
Solution : Time bomb is active , its will destroy the diplomacy randomly every turn.
Result : Your tiny kingdom is getting slaughter by the one you called ally
Effect : In order to survive you do need to build proper kingdom with realy have tactical advantages to hold the enemy invasion, in simple words you need to actively destroy potential rival that capable harm you in the future. Automaticly you need to expand and capture new territory in the process.So its was race againt the time, failure to make good preparation then the player can alt+f4 or start new game. Hey its like DOTA tower td , there is no need to upgarde city wall right ? If no one coming to get your ass ^^

The good effect:
1.Upgrade city wall now feel worthed for every coin you spent
2.The enemy finally come and get you
3.Simply cant buy your way on diplomacy forever
4.Player now finally able to feel what terror like ^^

The bad effect :
1.Since the time bomb is turn related, the game now is feel streamlined, or one way scenario
2.Lack of freedom, yep one cant drooling and sleeping , just click end turn waiting income coming forever and piggy bank grow fat like Swiss account

Realm divide in the rome 2 actually have 2 ways
1.From imperium, if you conquer enough province and you get massive Imperium you do realize at some point lots of faction will declare war to you, as they see you are realy dangerous faction. However mostly you will never get to see this, because its take time for you to conquer the whole map.

2.From time bomb, its react based on every turn and was random, its can set for AI vs AI or AI vs Human, right now in current 3.4 version i do disable it until i found your problem. The setting is bit tricky, but its realy promising feature. For example like your save game, you have money, you have building, you have full 20 units navy patroling your sea for what ??? Nobody attack you ??? AI will not attack you unless they are forced to do it.

The time bomb feature itself was not eternal its can be set for certain amount of turn, so lets say current turn 60 - 80 as time to test your wall strengh. After its pass turn 80 , things start get back to normal , but your previous faction that declare war with you, perhaps still continue push war to your foced you eventually capture their land and destroy their faction, meaning Imperium Level is up, you simply cant stay idle like before , never go oustide Italy and play GodFather to the rest of world faction :XD

[Alekho]

Thank you for working on this. To clarify, if I understand the thread correctly, there are issues currently with the mod? Or only when mixed with Wars of the Gods?

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

Its a loophole in the mod, that smart player able to exploit if he played carefully, on diplomacy, in the beginning you get good amount of diplomacy bonus like +30, this was to help AI and player to not plunge into chaos but make some healthy trade and other diplomacy bonus early on the game. However as the Imperium in game progress, the bonus became less and became negative, but during pre early Imperium progress, smart player can stop all the progress and use the loophole to earn enough money to exploit almost everything which should be not possible in the beginning.

Depend on the mod itself , some mod have better economy, some not, Radious for example not realy affected. Its also depend on what faction you used, experience may be different for each faction you play, however time bomb feature itself still interesting since its remind player that he dont have all eternity to sit down and counting his money behind his city wall without never wage singe war forever.

Either player forced to expand from time bomb effect or from Imperium negative bonus, one way or another, player will not be able to stop the progress and must keep forward expand its territorry or dying in the process.

[Alekho]

I see. Are you optimistic on being able to close the loophole?

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

Yes i am , what i need just to adjust the early diplomacy bonus, nothing hard stuff actually, for time bomb, i still think did the option is worthed to be actived or not

[Alekho]

I'm new to this, don't know what time bomb feature is, but you obviously know your stuff. Thanks!

[Hoplite of Ilis]

Thanks Junaidi.

[lavez]

Hello Junaidi!

I remember that in your earlier versions of BACAI for Radious, the army limit was set to 57, etc. In your newer version, I see a maximum of 18 armies, 11 navies, 4 agents, it's basically the same setting as in BACAI for vanilla. I'm curious why that is, because in Radious the economy is much easier than in vanilla, both the player and AI are basically swimming in money, armies are very cheap to recruit and maintain. Money-wise, it's about as difficult to maintain 12 full-stack armies with 3 provinces in Radious as it is to maintain 5 armies with 3 provinces in vanilla, just to give you an example xD

About the 'bomb' thing.

I think it makes sense, that a strong player or AI faction isn't just blindly attacked by smaller factions, unless these factions are allied with each other and collectively stand a chance against the behemoth (e.g. big faction has 14 armies, allied smaller factions in the region have 18 armies total).

If you activated a 'realm divide'/'bomb' kind of thing, based on a turn number or Imperium level, there is one major issue - diplomacy becomes nonsensical. I remember how in vanilla Rome and Attila (or any other CA game, really) I would just reload the last turn if some idiot AI faction 20 times weaker than me declared war for no good reason at all - it was always because some random trigger kicked in and told that faction to attack me. It was artificial, it broke diplomacy.

Say in Med2, things didn't get any better until I installed a CAI mod like XAI - the AI would stop making stupid wars, if there was a big faction in the region that threatened it's neighbours (whether other AI faction or player). What the AI would do instead, is build a network of alliances to contain the big faction, so that whenever big faction attacked a smaller faction, it would get dragged into a war with 3+ other factions. The big faction would also calculate, whether it had enough military forces to attack a whole alliance, and the alliance would decide whether to attack the big faction in the same way.

Your BACAI mod for Rome 2 and other games brought some of that logic back into the game - I think what needs improvement is mostly the fact that smaller factions still cave into pressure of a big faction too easily, they shouldn't really sign a military access, non-aggression treaty, defensive alliance or military alliance with a big faction because it just means they're helping a big faction to become even bigger and eventually devour the whole world (trade rights are the only exception, because they usually benefit the smaller faction more). The logic here is simple - the only real guarantee that smaller factions won't become isolated and killed off one-by-one by bigger factions is if they band together and refuse to serve imperialist interests

Another issue with the 'bomb' is that it dictates the pace of the game, regardless of how the campaign develops. Turn number and Imperium level are completely arbitrary, because they don't reflect the reality of the situation - a 'big' faction could be weak because it has horrible economy, few armies and is attacked on all sides, because the real 'force' on the campaign map is just an alliance of 2-3 factions instead . Logic dictates, that it is this alliance that is the biggest threat on the map, and that other factions should give the 'big but weak' faction some slack (possibly temporarily ally with it). On the other hand if bomb activates ... everyone just loses their

And to fix this issue ... well, CAI needs to de-prioritise the importance of Imperium level, and focus on the real measure of strength when evaluating threats - how strong is the economy and military of each alliance block on the campaign map. One conflict in CAI logic here is deciding between attacking an easy target for territorial gains, and trying to contain the biggest threat instead (immediate reward vs long-term survival dilemma). The AI often decides not to attack at all, because it incorrectly calculates the likelihood of winning a war - it takes into account strength of enemy alliance, but doesn't include that of it's own allies -> hence the more alliances there are on campaign map, the more peaceful it is with fewer wars taking place. But it is not an issue that can be fixed by a 'bomb', because the only thing that a 'bomb' does is destroy the diplomatic system in the game

But these are just my thoughts, you'll do what you believe is best for the mod and hopefully it works out so we can have a challenging, but also sensible campaign

[Alekho]

So this mods affect battle ai too? I thought the author said no, but BACAI (previous comment) means battle and campaign, no?

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

Ah finally some of my fellow AI fans, its has been long time since somebody spoke XAI, if medieval 2 have XAI, rome 2 and Attila have better aggresive CAI, both mod have same determination to improve AI as much as its can. XAI also work on BAI as well , mine is kind of semi tweaks regarding vision spot X-x

Yes that why i still not update mod today, since i do realize the consequence if the time bomb feature finally back, however i also need to figure it out the way to stop human abuse trade right and build all military network from that. Probably the only things i can is by lowering early imperium bonus from 30 to 15, and second imperium lvl from 15 to 0, and the rest negative , in theory its should be able to stop human player and other ai as well from doing to much trade, since mostly lot of small faction stuck with low level imperium making trade very easy to happens.

The downside on it, probably trade was not easy to obtain , and if player play its wrong, they can get lots of war coming from hungry AI nearby.All was still keeping diplomacy intact and time bomb disabled. Win win solution i must say. Other then that, its was very difficult to choice decision like you said early, its realy dillema

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

So this mods affect battle ai too? I thought the author said no, but BACAI (previous comment) means battle and campaign, no?

The mod do not alter BAI in units stats, kill morale etc etc, its do however boost BAI in vision field, since AI is blind near sight, with lot vision they can see whole battle map and predict better movement like flanking etc etc, which in turn give you better BAI without single damn STATS table touch. And you can combine with your favourite battle mod, just load the BACAI at first order

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

Junaidi,
here is the link to my save file:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1...EpYUzFhbUV5T0U
Battle works without mod being activated and does not work when it is activated. Hope this will help.
Thanks in advance for your help and support.

Hello Sir Babaikasc right now i try to address your problem, so far i dont see the battle crash like you said , so let me ask you first :
1.What normal version you used ? artillery or without artillery, economy or without economy ?
2.Can you somehow point me to specific crash battle you experienced , right now i am lookin on fast world map, there is plenty of battle and i do try some of the battle and seem everything running well.If you can use picture like i done below its will even more helpfull, however so far i dont see any problem at all

[Hoplite of Ilis]

I begun again, with my all time DIFFICULT-like, Epirus! War from turn 3 with Athens, Sparta, Syracuse. Rome and Macedon join the war against me real soon as well. Now that is how you expect a TW game to be! At least!
Of course, I'm waiting to see the AI mod take better effect this time. Let's see