I have been betrayed almost 5 times by my own Generals.

**BosnianKnight** · November 11, 2014, 09:54 AM

But it kinda feels realistic, and yet so annoying. I raise an army to conquer Illyria, the general betrays me, I raise another, beat the rebel and guess what happens?

**ertai1987** · November 11, 2014, 10:31 AM

I think assigning a diplomat on an army makes it less probable of rebelling or being successfully bribed.

**Simpelicity** · November 11, 2014, 10:55 AM

I was told a spy does that, and as far as I can tell a spy works.

**Brihentin13** · November 11, 2014, 11:41 AM

Back in M2TW vanilla, I had an entire entourage of agents to prevent this kind of crap. I also screened any and all threats to my supremacy with my omniscient Assassin's Guild.

Any diplomat that got within 3 provinces of my armies was immediately assassinated. Any spy found anywhere within my borders was immediately assassinated. Any Imams found near my country were, you guessed it, assassinated. Anytime a pope was elected that I didn't like, he was assassinated by any one of the twelve assassins that constantly circled Rome. Anytime a general or captain rebelled, he was assassinated. Anytime a heretic or witch popped up, instead of wasting priests, I just assassinated it.

Any war that I fought began with the systematic assassination of any and all royal family members and generals. Helpful buildings were blown up. The enemy collapsed before my army even got there. You could literally assassinate an entire faction's family tree, causing said faction to "die" and leave their lands as the rebel faction, which of course had no chance of putting up a coordinated defense. So, I haven't played much EB 2(too lazy to get the current version downloaded when my friends are all on the ps4 right now), but if assassins are half as good as in vanilla, then there's your fix right there.

**Sint** · November 11, 2014, 12:03 PM

You need to use generals with high loyality.Try to use them in small battles with a loyal general(FL) and let them fight the battle while they are young.
And try to fight battles with your FL too so he gets high Authority.

**BosnianKnight** · November 11, 2014, 12:09 PM

Thanks guys.

**Zeleny drak** · November 11, 2014, 02:51 PM

From my experience your generals will not betray you, no matter what the loyalty, if your FL has very high authority. As soon as you get a new FL move all your armies in cities or forts and go win some battles with your FL. After his authority is more than half you can start moving armies with generals with good loyalty but still avoid keeping them for long in deserts or winter. After the FL authority is more than 3/4 full you should not have any issues with betrayals.

**Sint** · November 11, 2014, 04:21 PM

They can still do that especailly if they have only 1 or 2 points but a guy with only 2 loality shouldn't lead an army to begin with.

**Dago Red** · November 11, 2014, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by Sint

They can still do that especailly if they have only 1 or 2 points but a guy with only 2 loality shouldn't lead an army to begin with.

It would be nice to see some with more than 2 or 3 loyalty then. Also impossible to gain command stars, as has been noted by many already. These are two issues which need to be addressed.

Yes to the helpful words above, but when you spend an entire generation without even seeing any generals with more than 3 loyalty something's cracked. Getting a lot of crap generals in every campaign, and the school building chain is either bugged or incomplete, because generals left in cities with cushy jobs getting a good education for years and years, still learn nothing helpful.

**QuintusSertorius** · November 12, 2014, 03:23 AM

I play on Medium difficulty, but I've never had a general turn rebel. A Captain-led stack, yes, but not a Family Member.

**cdogg2011** · November 12, 2014, 03:50 AM

The best way to avoid betrayal is to only send out generals that have high loyalty stats. Personally, I only send a stack of armies with a general that has 3+ loyalty stat, and leave the other generals to govern my cities.

**Roma_Victrix** · November 12, 2014, 04:24 AM

Originally Posted by Brihentin13

Back in M2TW vanilla, I had an entire entourage of agents to prevent this kind of crap. I also screened any and all threats to my supremacy with my omniscient Assassin's Guild.

Any diplomat that got within 3 provinces of my armies was immediately assassinated. Any spy found anywhere within my borders was immediately assassinated. Any Imams found near my country were, you guessed it, assassinated. Anytime a pope was elected that I didn't like, he was assassinated by any one of the twelve assassins that constantly circled Rome. Anytime a general or captain rebelled, he was assassinated. Anytime a heretic or witch popped up, instead of wasting priests, I just assassinated it.

Any war that I fought began with the systematic assassination of any and all royal family members and generals. Helpful buildings were blown up. The enemy collapsed before my army even got there. You could literally assassinate an entire faction's family tree, causing said faction to "die" and leave their lands as the rebel faction, which of course had no chance of putting up a coordinated defense. So, I haven't played much EB 2(too lazy to get the current version downloaded when my friends are all on the ps4 right now), but if assassins are half as good as in vanilla, then there's your fix right there.

How did you get so many highly powered assassins? It takes a long time to beef up their stats. Were you by any chance using the console command "~" to give them new traits and ancillaries? You know, cheating?

Whether you did or not, I can only approve strongly of your strategy.

THE ENEMY. I say. That's what they deserve. They deserve to be tortured to death, and then buried upside down and their graves peed on, their wives and loved ones sold into sexual slavery, their pets stabbed and beaten to death, their heirlooms shattered, their culture annihilated. Good riddance.

**Brihentin13** · November 12, 2014, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix

How did you get so many highly powered assassins? It takes a long time to beef up their stats. Were you by any chance using the console command "~" to give them new traits and ancillaries? You know, cheating?

Whether you did or not, I can only approve strongly of your strategy.

THE ENEMY. I say. That's what they deserve. They deserve to be tortured to death, and then buried upside down and their graves peed on, their wives and loved ones sold into sexual slavery, their pets stabbed and beaten to death, their heirlooms shattered, their culture annihilated. Good riddance.

You know those annoying rebels that just spawn everywhere? They are hilariously easy to assassinate. My agents train by stabbing brigands in their sleep before moving on to those difficult foreign targets.

**Darkan** · November 12, 2014, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius

I play on Medium difficulty, but I've never had a general turn rebel. A Captain-led stack, yes, but not a Family Member.

Started a Pergamon campaign a few weeks back. Starts out with 4 FMs, old FL, FH, Eumenes the next in line and an underaged one. First turn, FH attacks a rebel army. FL stays in the city (he usually dies on the 2nd turn) and Eumenes (alone) builds a watchtower and moves north to build another one on the next turn. End turn: FL dies, Eumenes rebels. M/M but it was the first time ever that happened.
May be pretty random I guess.

**demagogos nicator** · November 13, 2014, 03:01 AM

Do betrayals really hapen so often? Thats amazing I have to start some proper EB2 campaign soon. I have not yet face any neither in vanila M2TW nor in any other mod.

**Dago Red** · November 13, 2014, 10:57 AM

They are not that often in my experience, but I don't leave generals out in the open for very long and have tended to play lots of factions with strong leaders so far (if that is truly a determinate of future character's chances of betraying you).

But playing Baktria, I had a 3/4 full stack rebel on its way out of a far flung Saka territory after they horded and it all became not worth it. The general leading them had at least 3 loyalty and possessed a few favorable traits and ancillaries so I loaded the save game and when I hit turn, it happened all over again. This time I let it go, even though it was my entire northern/saka army (outside of what I had garrisoned 10 turns away in their former capital). A few turns later another general turned traitor when he was on route from one southern city to the indian port town of Patala (it was the closest Iranian city to it, about 4-5 turns on roads in clear months).

I checked the family tree and saw that they were brothers. They appeared to have good positions in society, had performed relatively well in battle (though not outstanding) and I thought they had quite pretty wives. I'm worried about the rest of the family now, but there is only a brother in law, married in to the younger sister.

This is cool stuff that makes games based on any engine that's not RomeII worth playing, and even more so in the depths of the work done by this team. Yet I wonder what underlies these traitor mechanics. Coincidence that they were brothers? Was something scripted? Are there whole families you must worry about if you've recently suffered a major loss, or the death of a king (family leader recently died) and are being lead by a new man with low influence?

The more we know about what is happening and the limits/parameters that EB has changed, the better the experience will be. Right now it's more frustrating than interesting or immersive, but with some tweaking (especially in the way generals gain and retain loyalty -- right now they come in with super low loyalty and seem to only lose it as time goes on) this will be great.