Russia continously violate airspace around the Baltic and tries to lie about it

[Adar]

Russian aircraft enter Finnish air space and tries to pretend it is civilian:

source
Thursday’s papers also focus on new information about an airspace incursion by a Russian plane in Finland in August. The tabloid daily Iltalehti reports that the pilot of the unidentified Russian military craft tried to pass his jet off as a civilian plane, according to preliminary findings by the Finnish Border Guard.

The incident, which took place near Porvoo on August 28, saw air traffic controllers warn the pilot off from entering Finnish air space without permission, however the pilot insisted that his plane belonged to the Russian commercial airline Aeroflot, when in fact it was an Antonov 72 military jet.
Iltalehti quotes Parliamentary Defence Committee chair Jussi Niinistö, who condemned the actions of the pilot.
“The Aeroflot message suggests that this was a deliberate and gross violation of Finnish territory. This is by no means a question of navigational error,” Niinistö told the paper.
The Russian military jet exited Finnish airspace after fighter jets scrambled by the Finnish Air Force forced it to change course. The paper reports that Finland chose not to pursue an inquiry into the case since it was more than likely that it wouldn’t be possible to question the pilot. Altogether there were three airspace incursions by Russian military jets into Finnish airspace in August this year.

Russian officials deny that their aircraft ever entered Swedish airspace despite radar imagery.

Source (in Swedish, summary below)


On the 17th September two Russian attack aircraft entered Swedish airspace and only slowly changed course when confronted by Gripen fighter jets. After the incident the Russian ambassador was summoned to the ministry of foreign affairs as customary after serious violations. Normal protocol is to apologise or not to respond at all but Russia instead decided to respond with their own ”aide-mémoire” denying that they had ever violated Swedish airspace. Sweden has since then reponded with a diplomatic note which is the next stage of a diplomatic conflict.

And same procedure in Estonia

It follows claims by Estonia that a Russian reconnaissance jet entered Estonian airspace without permission on October 21.
"Russian Defense Ministry aircraft did not violate the airspace of the Republic of Estonia," a statement from Russia's Defense Ministry said.
According to the ministry, the reconnaissance plane was making a training flight above the neutral Baltic Sea.
"The flight proceeded in strict accordance with international rules on the use of airspace," Russia's Defense Ministry added, according to the Interfax news agency.
But Estonia's Air Operations Command Centre says the plane entered Estonian airspace for around a minute on Tuesday . It's transponder was turned off whilst it didn't make radio contact with the Estonian air traffic service.
In a response, Estonia's Foreign Ministry on Wednesday summoned Russian Ambassador to Estonia Yuri Merzlyakov for questioning.
Meanwhile, Baltic officials say they have noted a rise in the number of Russian warships and planes flying close to their borders amid the crisis in the Ukraine.

I am sure that we will get a lot of "But America also do this!" or "Everyone is a liar"... But it doesn't really matter. What is interesting in this case is that Russia is breaking a lot of taboos in diplomacy as they move from "plausible denial" to outright lies. We have seen this in several cases this year (ie for example Crimea) but it is clear that Russia have changed the norms of it's diplomatic relations with the rest of the world.

[Stavroforos]

It's sad to see that Russia is turning into Turkey more and more when it comes to its concern about aerial borders.

[Heathen Hammer]

It's sad to see that Russia is turning into Turkey more and more when it comes to its concern about aerial borders.

Maybe its some secret exam to pass into joining NATO? In order to join an alliance of , you have to master being yourself.

[Roma_Victrix]

What is this? Payback for sanctions? What is the purpose of testing the waters here? Putin doesn't actually think he's under threat of invasion by NATO, does he? One has to wonder. If the Russian government denies these incursions, I'm not sure how that proves useful in the PR front to the Russian people who Putin must convince that Russia (and by extension his regime) is still strong, despite its recent economic woes.

[Stavroforos]

What is this? Payback for sanctions? What is the purpose of testing the waters here? Putin doesn't actually think he's under threat of invasion by NATO, does he? One has to wonder. If the Russian government denies these incursions, I'm not sure how that proves useful in the PR front to the Russian people who Putin must convince that Russia (and by extension his regime) is still strong, despite its recent economic woes.

I wouldn't be surprised if Putin, or at least some members of the Russian armed forces and government, actually did believe that there was a threat of NATO invasion. I mean, there was fear throughout the Soviet Union throughout the Cold War that America would launch a first strike, which is something that seems very odd in the West where we expected a Soviet first strike. It's what happens when each side tries to portray the other as the ultimate boogeyman.

[Roma_Victrix]

I wouldn't be surprised if Putin, or at least some members of the Russian armed forces and government, actually did believe that there was a threat of NATO invasion. I mean, there was fear throughout the Soviet Union throughout the Cold War that America would launch a first strike, which is something that seems very odd in the West where we expected a Soviet first strike. It's what happens when each side tries to portray the other as the ultimate boogeyman.

I can see where the Soviets got that idea, considering Hiroshima and Nagasaki, while the US, in a classic case of projection, would have expected nothing less from the Soviets either. Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) makes all the kids behave themselves in the sandbox and playground of the world, though. The Cuban Missile Crisis was just a bit too unnerving for both sides to engage in anything beyond a Cold War of using soft power and proxy fights. That's essentially what's going on here (i.e. sanctions), considering how both the US and RF are nuclear powers, to say nothing of other NATO members like the UK and France.

For that matter, it will be interesting to see Pakistan and India go at it again, if that ever happens (let's hope not, for fallout sake).

[Adar]

What is this? Payback for sanctions? What is the purpose of testing the waters here? Putin doesn't actually think he's under threat of invasion by NATO, does he? One has to wonder. If the Russian government denies these incursions, I'm not sure how that proves useful in the PR front to the Russian people who Putin must convince that Russia (and by extension his regime) is still strong, despite its recent economic woes.

My guess is that they want to send a very strong message of "We are not playing by the rules of anyone else".

[hellheaven1987]

My guess is that they want to send a very strong message of "We are not playing by the rules of anyone else".

In that case why Putin does not just admit "yes I violate your air space"?

[Adar]

In that case why Putin does not just admit "yes I violate your air space"?

Because that would be accepting the facts of others which would be according to normal diplomatic procedures.

[hellheaven1987]

Because that would be accepting the facts of others which would be according to normal diplomatic procedures.

Implying Putin cares your normal diplomatic procedures now.

The thing is if he really wants to "show off" Russian power, he should already admit, if not broadcast, that Russia is the one doing all those violation and Baltic states can do nothing.

[AqD]

What is this? Payback for sanctions?

Or an invitation of foreign occupation to save his country.


That or he's insane, or his position is threatened internally.

[Dromikaites]

As a result of the ruble falling 30% against the dollar, the price of meat jumped 20% in Russia (most of the meat is imported and paid in dollars).

Putin is probably trying to replace meat with the illusion of power.

We will see how long the change in diet can last.

[Roma_Victrix]

Putin is probably trying to replace meat with the illusion of power.

This definitely belongs in somebody's signature.

[Dr Zoidberg]

As a result of the ruble falling 30% against the dollar, the price of meat jumped 20% in Russia (most of the meat is imported and paid in dollars).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYD9xu92zSg

[Dromikaites]

Russia will join NATO. Piece by piece.

[Markas]

Oh come on people the pilot was Russian. He was probably so off his face on vodka he thought he did work for Aeroflot.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

Oh come on people the pilot was Russian. He was probably so off his face on vodka he thought he did work for Aeroflot.

[Sire Brenshar]

All it needs is a red paint job and it'll be the worlds most powerful weapon.

[Derpy Hooves]

All it needs is a red paint job and it'll be the worlds most powerful weapon.

​It would make it three times stronger

[removeduser_487563287433]

BBC put up this excellent map the other day:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29956277