A start to further progress in Russia?

[RusskiSoldat]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6111188.stm

Russian marchers defy Moscow ban
Supporters of a Russian national revival party hold their flags during the rally
Some 2,000 people are taking part in the Moscow rally
Hundreds of ultra-nationalists and far-right demonstrators are rallying in the Russian capital, Moscow, defying a ban on their march by the city's mayor.

However, although organisers predicted a high turn-out, a strong police presence appears to have deterred many.

Less than 2,000 are taking part in the "Russian march" while some 6,500 police officers have been deployed.

Although from a range of groups, the marchers have a single message against immigration and immigrant workers.

Several hundred police, some in riot gear, surrounded a central square near a Russian orthodox convent where demonstrators had gathered, but there have been no reports of fighting.

About a dozen protesters were reported to have been arrested during the rally.

New public holiday

The BBC's Richard Galpin, in Moscow, said the march brought together a broad range of different groups, including moderate nationalists, the religious right and neo-Nazis.

Some marchers carried religious icons, others far-right political flags.

Mayor Yuri Luzhkov banned the rally in a bid to prevent any repeat of last year's demonstration when hundreds of ultra-nationalists shouted far-right slogans in the capital.

That march dominated a new 4 November public holiday, called The Day of People's Unity.

It was created after the parliament scrapped the 7 November public holiday marking the 1917 Bolshevik uprising.

The new holiday marks the end of Polish occupation in 1612.

Last year swastikas and Nazi salutes were seen among the crowd, who carried banners proclaiming the supremacy of the Russian nation.

Several other Russian cities, including St Petersburg, have also announced they will not allow any ultra-nationalist marches on Saturday.

This is great news!
The Nazis and extremist church members actually fear the police now, and the government has proven itself willing to actually impose itself upon the people and put if not a stop, then severe restrictions, on things like this.

[over-man]

Last year swastikas and Nazi salutes were seen among the crowd, who carried banners proclaiming the supremacy of the Russian nation.

Maybe some more history books would further progress russia?

[danzig]

Last year swastikas and Nazi salutes were seen among the crowd, who carried banners proclaiming the supremacy of the Russian nation.

That is just bizarre...and only thing I can think that would be wierder is a black KKK member. Im torn in thinking anyone that dumb should just be shot or tossed in jail.

[Da Skinna]

That is just bizarre...and only thing I can think that would be wierder is a black KKK member. Im torn in thinking anyone that dumb should just be shot or tossed in jail.

Kill em, it's cheaper. Jails cost too much to maintain.

[John Wayne]

Kill em, it's cheaper. Jails cost too much to maintain.

Yeah, but then you have to deal with the bodies, the victims family (possible children swearing revenge, and you know how bad they can be), the ****** PR your country gets, all of theese problems that could just be fixed by reinstating slavery. If your going to kill them, you may as well get some work out of them first.

[VALIS]

its funny that this once communist soviet superpower has seen an upsurge of nationalist support and nazi sympathy recently.

[Hansa]

About bleeding time the Russian govt distances themselves from the far-right. If I remember correctly, a lot of human rightts organizations has recently chritizised the govt for not doing enough to prevent racial violence in Russia. Foreign exhange students in St Petersburg, people from different former Sovjet republics have all been subjected to violence and murder from these thugs. Something has to be done, manpower is what Russia needs, regardless if they are Slavs or Azerbajanis, as long as they do honest work. Hope this marks a change in policy from the Kremlin.

Any great chance of far right nationalists taking power when Putin steps down?

[VALIS]

About bleeding time the Russian govt distances themselves from the far-right. If I remember correctly, a lot of human rightts organizations has recently chritizised the govt for not doing enough to prevent racial violence in Russia. Foreign exhange students in St Petersburg, people from different former Sovjet republics have all been subjected to violence and murder from these thugs. Something has to be done, manpower is what Russia needs, regardless if they are Slavs or Azerbajanis, as long as they do honest work. Hope this marks a change in policy from the Kremlin.

Any great chance of far right nationalists taking power when Putin steps down?

the day putin steps down is the day he dies,or is killed because i dont think hes going to go voluntarily,if you know what i mean.

[RusskiSoldat]

Any great chance of far right nationalists taking power when Putin steps down?

No.
Putin's replacement will be most likely a centrist economist or a mid right general.

[RusskiSoldat]

its funny that this once communist soviet superpower has seen an upsurge of nationalist support and nazi sympathy recently.

No it's not, all of them have.
The socialist system had many good points and was enjoyed by many, as such when it failed they avoided looking at the economic reasons and went straight for the social reasons: instead of promoting racial superiority, it promoted racial equality. As such, some people figured that was what was wrong with it.

the day putin steps down is the day he dies,or is killed because i dont think hes going to go voluntarily,if you know what i mean.

Considering every other week the press quotes him as saying he has no intention of continuing on for a third term (mostly in response to western accusations of dictatorship), it'd be a pretty far turn around.
He doesn't have to step down, he will be replaced in the presidential role by another capable man and will leave for himself a nice government job.
Putin's centrists and the communists are the only ones who have a real chance at anything, and unless the centrists really **** up, the communists won't do anything.
Especially with Putin successfully breaking their party in two.

[Bwaho]

what's up with these russian nazis? I could understand if they were fascists, but nazis?

Hitler didn't think very highly of slavs to begin with...

[Visna]

what's up with these russian nazis? I could understand if they were fascists, but nazis?

Hitler didn't think very highly of slavs to begin with...

I don't think they are nazis as such. They are "just" extremely hostile to immigrants, perhaps they have a small imperial dream or two, and are basically just damn confused. And Asians and people from the Caucasus have been having a hard time in major Russian cities for years now. I think the Russian "nazis" are someone who can't find an outlet for their extreme political views, and since communism and "the good old days" is sort of dead, they think the only extreme political movement matching their views is something resembling nazis. Plus the whole equality ideal in communism might scare them off. :tooth:

[RusskiSoldat]

Most of these are religious fanatics (who incidentally believe the Third Rome should rule over all), anti immigrant workers, or indeed Nazis (yes, they do exist, Nazi movements now recognize Slavs as members of the master race, and they seem to have forgotten of Hitler's plans for us).

[Bwaho]

I don't think they are nazis as such

Just looking at their propaganda posters is enough. On one poster there is a map of russia with Hitler's head in the middle of it and then under the head it says heil hitler. There's obviously more to it than just russian patriotism.

[RusskiSoldat]

Make no mistake about it, they are Nazis.
No substitutes, Heil Hitler, "Slav, preserve the sanctity of your blood" Nazis.

[Zenith Darksea]

who incidentally believe the Third Rome should rule over all

Oh gosh, I know what you mean. As a Greek Orthodox, I'm always piqued when some Russian Orthodox tells me that the Moscow Patriarchate now holds the position of primacy. What rot.

[Blaven]

What's "The Third Rome"?

[RusskiSoldat]

Oh gosh, I know what you mean. As a Greek Orthodox, I'm always piqued when some Russian Orthodox tells me that the Moscow Patriarchate now holds the position of primacy. What rot.

I'm not very fluent on church affairs, so explain the system further for my education.

What's "The Third Rome"?

According to the Russian church, the first Rome is Rome, the second was Byzantium, the third is Moscow, and there shall not be a fourth.

[Dromikaites]

The Russian Nazis are a proof there's no limit to human stupidity. Most likely we will soon see Nazi Jews in order to be able to further push the known boundaries of ineptitude.

It looks like the Russian government did do a good job. On the other hand there were 2000 idiots who dared to show up while many others didn't have the guts to participate in the march but didn't become tolerant and democratic overnight either. It might be that some of them would take the fight for Russian supremacy underground, the way the KKK acted up until the '70s. Or they might even give it a Russian spin (like a combination of 19th century anarcho-terrorism + late 20th century Russian Mafia).

One fundamental problem is a semi-dictatorial government (at home) and imperialist (abroad) is sometimes difficult to distinguish from the "solutions" advocated by the Russian Nazis.

The second fundamental problem is the recent idea of the Russian government that immigrants are needed while in the same time many Russian villages and towns are still dead in terms of economic development and internal migrations are discouraged (the "propiska" system). No wonder then a rural or small-town Russian who is unemployed in a big city would resent both the Central-Asians who "stole" his/her job and the government who wants to deport him/her back to the poor village/town he/she has left in order to seek work in a big city.

The third fundamental problem is culturally more than 2 thirds of the Russians feel that somebody else is responsible for their success or failure. In this respect the Russians are behind many Muslim countries where we would expect that people believe their destiny is in the hands of Allah. On one hand this cultural trait explains why the Russians seem too obedient and too tolerant with the dictatorial behavior of many of their leaders. On the other hand that makes it very easy for the majority of the Russians to find scapegoats: the Jews, the capitalists, the West, the immigrants are always the ones to blame for whatever bad hapens in their lives. Nazis would therefore find a fertile ground for their messages as long as the culture stays the same.

Bottom line: while the first step in enforcing the law is to make the potential perpetrators fear the authorities, the Nazis are there to stay.

[RusskiSoldat]

The Russian Nazis are a proof there's no limit to human stupidity. Most likely we will soon see Nazi Jews in order to be able to further push the known boundaries of ineptitude.

The international Nazi movement recognizes Slavs as a part of the master race.
Good luck getting them to recognize the Jews as such.

One fundamental problem is a semi-dictatorial government (at home) and imperialist (abroad) is sometimes difficult to distinguish from the "solutions" advocated by the Russian Nazis.

So you're saying our government is practically Nazis anyway?
I'd expect that from you, but have you ever heard of taking things to an extreme for no reasons other than to further your agenda?
You might want to look into that.

The second fundamental problem is the recent idea of the Russian government that immigrants are needed while in the same time many Russian villages and towns are still dead in terms of economic development and internal migrations are discouraged (the "propiska" system). No wonder then a rural or small-town Russian who is unemployed in a big city would resent both the Central-Asians who "stole" his/her job and the government who wants to deport him/her back to the poor village/town he/she has left in order to seek work in a big city.

What?
The Propiska applies only to Moscow and (possibly) St. Petersburg.
Moscow is already overcrowded with illegal immigrants, and St. Petersburg, most of it being 18th and 19th century 2-6 story houses, cannot fit that many people.
The other propiska targets were mostly closed military cities, and those are all open now.
So a system which controls either one or two cities and is mostly used for tracking where people live is hardly the cause of problems.

The third fundamental problem is culturally more than 2 thirds of the Russians feel that somebody else is responsible for their success or failure.

Back this up immediately.
I want at least one survey that attests to such.
I could not find a single one, so until you show your elusive study, I will treat the above as a nonpoint.

In this respect the Russians are behind many Muslim countries where we would expect that people believe their destiny is in the hands of Allah. On one hand this cultural trait explains why the Russians seem too obedient and too tolerant with the dictatorial behavior of many of their leaders. On the other hand that makes it very easy for the majority of the Russians to find scapegoats: the Jews, the capitalists, the West, the immigrants are always the ones to blame for whatever bad hapens in their lives. Nazis would therefore find a fertile ground for their messages as long as the culture stays the same.

Bottom line: while the first step in enforcing the law is to make the potential perpetrators fear the authorities, the Nazis are there to stay.

No **** the Nazis are there to stay.
The US, France, UK, Germany and any other at least somewhat white country (including Spain, not exactly blue eyed blonds by the lot) have Nazis, so no doubt Russia will have them too.