The only developed nation that still considers paid vacations a perk.

[alhoon]

http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/201...acation-nation

The gist: USA are the only developed nation that still considers paid vacations a perk.
Along with that
"a recent study from the US-based Center for Economic and Policy Research found that nearly one in four private-sector workers doesn’t receive any paid vacation time."
"Even for those Americans who do receive paid time off, actually taking it can prove to be a Herculean task. The overall culture of the American workplace is one where people often feel that if they dare to request vacation days, they will be stigmatised as lazy or disloyal."
"Some 28% of workers told Glassdoor they feared falling behind in their work, while 17% feared losing their job. Another 19% said they didn’t take long vacations because they wanted to have an edge over the competition for a promotion."

So, it's not just pizza boys or cinema workers that don't get paid vacations.

Such far rightwing policies are ultimately harmful for society in my opinion. 20-30 days of vacation improve ones quality of life and it means more time spent with kids and recharging one's batteries. The drop in productivity IMO is not comparable to the gains in quality of life of the citizens.
The article describes the problems that stem from no vacation time.

[hellheaven1987]

You mean the only white Western nation.

[Phier]

As a business owner, this idea intrigues me. What is this paid time off thing you speak of? When I don't work, I don't get paid, ever.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ebs.t05.htm

Shrug, whatever.

[The spartan]

As a business owner, this idea intrigues me. What is this paid time off thing you speak of? When I don't work, I don't get paid, ever.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ebs.t05.htm

Shrug, whatever.

You also own all the capital that your employees are producing, so, you know, it isn't like you are analogous or anything...

[Gaidin]

You also own all the capital that your employees are producing, so, you know, it isn't like you are analogous or anything...

Yea, now...if we were talking about him and not his employees on the other hand...the analogy might have traction...as Europe has business owners that has to follow Europe's laws as well, and do it perfectly well while making profit. Or, there, well, wouldn't be business in Europe. Or so I'd like to think by the nature of business. This just in: businesses find ways to follow laws and make profit, documentary filming to be released this winter.

[Simon Cashmere]

You also own all the capital that your employees are producing, so, you know, it isn't like you are analogous or anything...

If indeed there is any capital being produced. That's the theory. The line between winning and losing is a thin one in all businesses.

[What]

As a business owner, this idea intrigues me. What is this paid time off thing you speak of? When I don't work, I don't get paid, ever.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ebs.t05.htm

Shrug, whatever.

I think the difference is that in many cases, not giving vacation time to workers is more indicative of maladaptive employer-employee relations than an economic necessity. Workers that get vacation time are happier and more loyal to their companies. Happier and more loyal workers are more productive, live longer, get sick less often, and have lower turnover rates. Mandatory vacation time and sick days means if a worker wants to plan to set up their own business, indulge in creative hobbies, or just raise their kids, they have time to do that. It means if the worker has a flu, they don't have to come in and risk infecting their customers and coworkers just so they can do substandard work.

The market has problems responding to this because it often costs firms money, even if there's a net societal benefit. It doesn't matter if not giving an employee enough vacation time causes their kid to be raised more poorly, because unless that child is later employed by the company, they don't have to pay for the reduced economic output. If a worker doesn't have time to work on an innovative business plan because he's too stressed and overworked, the firm doesn't pay the opportunity cost. Likewise, most Americans work more jobs over their lifetime than in the past. If a worker is with a company for decades or a lifetime, burnout costs the company money, but when a worker is liable to leave the company in a few years anyway, the risk of burnout and the long-term reduction in the productivity of the labor pool doesn't offset the cost of vacation days for the firm. It's like dumping toxic waste in the local river. It reduces costs for the firm, but the increase in societal costs outweigh that.

A lot of it is also very hard to quantify. How do you differentiate between an employee getting sick because of a coworker versus outside sources and calculate the costs? How do you calculate the marginal cost of vacation days for employees, when the economic costs slowly build over time?

So, I guess, in brief, I have sympathy for you as a business owner. I absolutely do think you should get vacation days, and that you'd be both happier and more efficient at running your business if that were the case. But at the same time, that's because your business literally cannot run without you. As a small business, no one can easily take over your role since no one else has regular access to the same information and the same top-down perspective. On the other hand, a lack of vacation days for workers is more due to mismanagement of the long-term labor pool and businesses imposing externalities on society. It's more easily fixed than your predicament. But, yes, they're both bad, and I believe society as a whole loses out from the position you're put in.

[Dromikaites]

As a business owner, this idea intrigues me. What is this paid time off thing you speak of? When I don't work, I don't get paid, ever.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ebs.t05.htm

Shrug, whatever.

I think it is just a matter of legal environment. In Europe and in some other places the law mandates paid time off. As a result, the business plans are drawn accordingly so the company can operate while some of its workforce is on holiday, and has enough cash to afford to pay the workers for the time they spend on holiday.

As for the paid sick leave, in most of the countries where that exists, it is taken care off by the State. How that works vary from country to country but the general idea is a fraction of the taxes both employees and employers pay go to a fund from where such cases are covered. Having those systems in place entails some paperwork and there is always a risk of abuse, but it works.

There are certain advantages to having paid holidays and paid sick leave, like reducing the risk of burnout and the risk of spreading diseases. Since all the companies must do that, the playing field is leveled and nobody is at a disadvantage.

As for the foreign competitors, the issue is automatically taken care off. The foreign products cannot sell by themselves, a local distribution chain must do it. And they cannot repair by themselves. A local repair service provider must do it. That means the costs of having paid leave get added to the foreign products by the local companies which handle them.

In case of the products which don't need repairing, they are low-added value anyway. As such they quite likely have ceased to be manufactured locally a long time ago. In the case of the sophisticated, high value-added products, usually the costs of labor are a tiny fraction anyway. Therefore making them in a country which doesn't mandate paid sick leave and paid holidays doesn't make them much more competitive than doing so in a country like say Germany.

Paid sick leave and paid holidays impact most heavily the services sector. It is there that an employee on paid leave is a pure cost and nothing else (since services cannot be stocked in advance). However only a tiny fraction of services can be truly exported. Most of the hairdressers would compete with the local hairdressers, most of the delis would have to worry about the other delis down the street, etc.

In the developed countries the service sector accounts for most of the GDP. Since that part of the GDP is generated locally, without much impact from the foreign competition, leveling the play field by making mandatory sick paid leave and paid holidays will only change the way businesses plan ahead and manage their cash and nothing much beside that.

[Denny Crane!]

As a former business owner that has paid it, its not a big deal to give 20 days holiday a year. If you can't budget it and afford it you are a damn business owner.

[Simon Cashmere]

As a former business owner that has paid it, its not a big deal to give 20 days holiday a year. If you can't budget it and afford it you are a damn business owner.

Actually 5.6 weeks a year leave for the UK people. 28 days. EU people mostly have 5 weeks.

20 days for Australia.

[Denny Crane!]

Actually 5.6 weeks a year leave for the UK people. 28 days. EU people mostly have 5 weeks.

20 days for Australia.

20 days plus bank holidays yeah.

[DaVinci]

Actually 5.6 weeks a year leave for the UK people. 28 days. EU people mostly have 5 weeks.

20 days for Australia.

Right. Valid for the normal employees.
Not valid at all valid ( edit: sentence corrected, double-express ), for free-lancers, as they act like normal firm-contractors in the european economy (EU), where the market-participant (business-owner) must see for himself, when he can take holidays from work - it's his responsibility and decision alone ... for that matter, he can just decide when he works and when not, unlike to the normal employee who has just a contract about all those items, the business-owner/free-lancer has orders (contracts as well, of course) which he must fulfill to get his money (as firm), of course, if the firm runs well without his work/presense, he can make "holidays" all the time (theoretically).

[Gaidin]

Right. Valid for the normal employees.
Not valid at all valid, for free-lancers, as they act like normal firm-contractors in the european economy (EU), where the market-participant (business-owner) must see for himself, when he can take holidays from work - it's his responsibility and decision alone ... for that matter, he can just decide when he works and when not, unlike to the normal employee who has just a contract about all those items, the business-owner/free-lancer has orders (contracts as well, of course) which he must fulfill to get his money (as firm), of course, if the firm runs well without his work/presense, he can make "holidays" all the time (theoretically).

I'm gonna quote a post for you:

Yea, now...if we were talking about him and not his employees on the other hand...the analogy might have traction...as Europe has business owners that has to follow Europe's laws as well, and do it perfectly well while making profit. Or, there, well, wouldn't be business in Europe. Or so I'd like to think by the nature of business. This just in: businesses find ways to follow laws and make profit, documentary filming to be released this winter.

[Phier]

As a former business owner that has paid it, its not a big deal to give 20 days holiday a year. If you can't budget it and afford it you are a damn business owner.

You want 20 days holiday a year, you are now worth a month less to me and will be paid accordingly. I will have to hire two more, maybe three more workers to compensate for the time off. See how this goes? Everyone gets paid less. My workers get 2 work weeks off (10 days). I get about the same, plus when I'm not in the office they will often get a "free" cover day. None of this includes the paid holidays on top of it.

Hiring more people to be less productive is stupid.

[Denny Crane!]

You want 20 days holiday a year, you are now worth a month less to me and will be paid accordingly. I will have to hire two more, maybe three more workers to compensate for the time off. See how this goes? Everyone gets paid less. My workers get 2 work weeks off (10 days). I get about the same, plus when I'm not in the office they will often get a "free" cover day. None of this includes the paid holidays on top of it.

Hiring more people to be less productive is stupid.

Well Gee sorry but we managed it, sorry you couldn't but we did and for 20 years or more and we certainly did not hire a bunch of extra staff at all. 2-3 workers? At one point we only had 2 workers full stop and we coped.

Edit: You know what I am clearly wrong because no small business could survive if your logical deduction was true, the UK obviously doesn't have a small business sector at all and this is all a product of a bad acid trip. I'm actually American, clearly the only country that could ever exist...

[Phier]

Well Gee sorry but we managed it, sorry you couldn't but we did and for 20 years or more and we certainly did not hire a bunch of extra staff at all. 2-3 workers? At one point we only had 2 workers full stop and we coped.

Edit: You know what I am clearly wrong because no small business could survive if your logical deduction was true, the UK obviously doesn't have a small business sector at all and this is all a product of a bad acid trip. I'm actually American, clearly the only country that could ever exist...

You don't get it but thats ok. You see my staff are skilled labor. They don't require a degree but it takes about six months getting them up to speed. They are practically worthless to me for the first three. This isn't just a hire a few more people, and "you managed" you have no idea what I pay or how it works. Just because it worked for whatever you did doesn't mean it makes sense in mine. I'm actually one of the better employers in my field in terms of pay, and hours. The idea of a month+ off as some sort of right is asinine, especially in a medical field.

[Mangalore]

You don't get it but thats ok. You see my staff are skilled labor. They don't require a degree but it takes about six months getting them up to speed. They are practically worthless to me for the first three. This isn't just a hire a few more people, and "you managed" you have no idea what I pay or how it works. Just because it worked for whatever you did doesn't mean it makes sense in mine. I'm actually one of the better employers in my field in terms of pay, and hours. The idea of a month+ off as some sort of right is asinine, especially in a medical field.

Usually skilled labor wants more perks or looks elsewhere. You don't want to know what I get as paid vacation but it is normal and if I wouldn't get it I would want more money or leave because that's how the market works. I currently get good money but there are opportunity to get more with the same perks or a lot more money with less perks.

Otherwise I can see how small businesses have their more personal deals so I don't think paid vacation or unpaid vacations are as big a deal as in big companies. In germany you simply build it around the project density and usually the boss also takes two to three weeks off over the year.

[trance]

You don't get it but thats ok. You see my staff are skilled labor. They don't require a degree but it takes about six months getting them up to speed. They are practically worthless to me for the first three. This isn't just a hire a few more people, and "you managed" you have no idea what I pay or how it works. Just because it worked for whatever you did doesn't mean it makes sense in mine. I'm actually one of the better employers in my field in terms of pay, and hours. The idea of a month+ off as some sort of right is asinine, especially in a medical field.

You do run a higher risk of losing employees prematurely through burn out or simply because other employers might offer it. Since nobody seems to in the U.S though, you're probably off just fine. Even though it's a third-world practice.

Since its law in Sweden, there's no exception - and yet Sweden has a perfectly functional economy - one of the best in the world mind you. Yet we have all sorts of labour laws increasing quality of life for its workers, everything from minimum wage for waitresses to 5 weeks paid vacation. Oh yes, this means that some companies are actually offering more vacation as a perk.

Yet big wheels keep on turning, Proud Mary keeps on burning and we're rollin'.

Now had Sweden been the only country where this was standard, I might buy that it wasn't a given, but literally the entire developed world has minimum vacation regulated through law. Many countries started with that during the late 30's/early 40's. It's simply retarded.

[alhoon]

You want 20 days holiday a year, you are now worth a month less to me and will be paid accordingly. I will have to hire two more, maybe three more workers to compensate for the time off. See how this goes? Everyone gets paid less. My workers get 2 work weeks off (10 days). I get about the same, plus when I'm not in the office they will often get a "free" cover day. None of this includes the paid holidays on top of it.

Hiring more people to be less productive is stupid.

I'm not telling you how to run your business, but if you want maximum productivity with the less salary without caring for the rights of the employees, you could always push for endured servitude or how it's called. Then you won't have to even pay a salary to your workers. You balk at that and think of it as inhumane? That's because it is. It's not about hiring the least amount of people, it's also trying to give them the opportunity to be good parents, have enough leisure time and grow as persons outside of work.

I'm actually one of the better employers in my field in terms of pay, and hours. The idea of a month+ off as some sort of right is asinine, especially in a medical field.

No it's not. The rest of the world manages it. Even in USA there are medical research facilities that require a PhD to work there and give paid vacations. How they manage it?

[Big War Bird]

There is no such thing as a paid vacation. All you have done is arranged for your somewhat unevenly productive labor over a given period to be evenly compensated over that same period of time.


Case in point

It is about 9 pm on a saturday night as I write this, and I am just sitting down for some productive labor, my vacation time was earlier today from about 2 pm to now. No matter when I do my labor, so long as it is done, I get paid every two weeks.

Must also point out that any article that names Alan Grayson as a authority on anything except possibly wife beating is so much toilet paper.