Junker

[Ludicus]

...and the secret Luxembourg tax deals.
A review of nearly 28,000 pages of confidential documents, the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ) said that the companies appear to have channelled hundreds of billions of dollars through Luxembourg and saved billions of dollars in taxes.

Le Luxembourg poursuit ses pratiques d'évasion fiscale

Luxembourg, le coffre-fort secret des multinationales

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Verhofstadt calls on Junker to come clean

....The Eurosceptic UKIP took the opportunity to state that “the EU-elite take care of their rich international corporate friends while they force austerity on working people"

Nicolas Mackel, chief executive of Luxembourg for Finance,

"there is nothing unfair or unethical about it,

Please comment.

[DaVinci]

Yes, that all is "funny", but a long known item of tax-politics in favour of corporations, except it is now again in the news (a lot in Germany at least, don't know how it is in other EU countries).
A german politician interpreted it recently as in this sense "it is legal practice, the item about 'tax-planning' (goal: big-players pay no taxes or marginal), but not everything that is legal is also legitim".

Mainly, all the tax-haven constructs in Luxembourg were/are managed by the economy-consultant firm Pricewaterhouse-Coopers.

But most "funny" is merely, that J.C. Juncker (who was the ministerpresident of Luxembourg, and under him, all that tax construct was managed, a best friend of economy leaders) seems to be cool about all that (just because it is legal tax law).

Another (perhaps even greater) fun fact, the one EU-commissioner, who is now main-responsible for the according investigations for the Luxembourg-matter, was formerly a consultant of the finance-market management in London, Jonathan Hill (a known euro-sceptic).

[Caesar Germanico]

The funny thing is that some of these corporations are now getting examined by the European Commission.

EU (rightly) bashes southern European countries for corruption and tax evasion issues and yet countries like Netherlands, Ireland and Luxembourg are freely allowed to set up this kind of tax policy.Something is not right.

[k995]

The funny thing is that some of these corporations are now getting examined by the European Commission.

EU (rightly) bashes southern European countries for corruption and tax evasion issues and yet countries like Netherlands, Ireland and Luxembourg are freely allowed to set up this kind of tax policy.Something is not right.

Thats simply not true .

They act on corruption and tax evasion in every country, investigation are ongoing for companies like apple , MS , dell and others in ireland and the netherlands . THose comapnies probably will have to pay billions for not even breaking a law, just forcing cuntries to give them preferential treatement.

The difference is it takes a lot longer to take on the tax system and mega corp like apple then you need to see that in a lot of southern countries taxes arent getting paid .

[Knight of Heaven]

Ah the bigest energy company in Portugal EDP, practises tax evasion via Netherlands... some of the cases like BES happened in Luxemburg and Belgic and all over the world, the Submarines cases Involving Ferrostaal and goverment officials either from Portugal but Greece as well... so there you go... one hand cleans the other... hypocrisy and populism at its best.

I would like to point out though that the perception of corruption is generaly higher in countries where economies have lower performances... it doesnt mean there is more corruption... its only its more highlighted or visable when things are not going well.
Now things are not going well for most of Europe.. so its no suprise cases like this will apear more often in the light of day.

[Denny Crane!]

But then the EU will just say ah this is why we need one single tax regime across the EU.

[SorelusImperion]

But then the EU will just say ah this is why we need one single tax regime across the EU.

Let's say we need some form of consolidated tax system that avoids the worst abuses. If the current leadership is fit to set up such a system can be doubted but it's beyond reasonable doubt that cooperation and consolidation is superior.

[Denny Crane!]

Let's say we need some form of consolidated tax system that avoids the worst abuses. If the current leadership is fit to set up such a system can be doubted but it's beyond reasonable doubt that cooperation and consolidation is superior.

Unless you examine the current distribution and collection system and realise its pants on head retarded and the CAP is one of the most evil policies since the holocaust. Yes I can think it is not superior and guess what bub the burden of proof is on the change not the establishment and good luck with that given the euro zone is an abject failure. Really good luck.

[SorelusImperion]

Unless you examine the current distribution and collection system and realise its pants on head retarded and the CAP is one of the most evil policies since the holocaust. Yes I can think it is not superior and guess what bub the burden of proof is on the change not the establishment and good luck with that given the euro zone is an abject failure. Really good luck.

It has been proven over and over again. The established system has failed to stop tax evasion and the abuse of loopholes allowed by the insufficient international cooperation when it comes to taxes. In a world where people can move large amounts of financial resources from one country to another there needs to be a international system to combat tax evasion. That and even interconnected markets need common standards should be self evident and there is no evidence that an effective tax system would be the lone exeption.

[Denny Crane!]

AH so you took that thing of burden of proof and just said...no evidence to prove there is not as though that satisfies burden of proof?

You notion of simplicity involves the formation of a superstate, harmonised taxation beyond conventional double taxation agreements amounts to the EU becoming a giant state and the assumption that this is just automatically better just because it will close some tax loopholes based on your notion of satisfying the burden of proof is laughably simplistic.

[k995]

But then the EU will just say ah this is why we need one single tax regime across the EU.

We actually do need that .

My take on it is either you go full out for a united states of europe or you have a very loosely free trade zone. The system we have now is the worst of both worlds .

[RNV]

This demonstrate again that current situation is worst possible, we should either go on with integration to have a single fiscal policy or more or less politely go back to cpmpletely sovereign Nation States, not this hybrid of free trade area and political union... people should choose: nothing, only free trade, EU integration.

edit: Denny that's the point though, as long as EU exist as it is now that's the only way to funcion, but we must vote!

[Mangalore]

He is spelt Juncker. A Junker is a Prussian landowning aristocrats or an aircraft.

[Ludicus]

A Junker is a Prussian landowning aristocrats .

I know

[sabaku_no_gaara]

It's funny, this news came the morning that the 3 main unions organized the biggest protest in the last 30 years (120.000 people went to Brussels to protest the austerity measures of government, a marginal group of dockworkers, metalworkers and fawkes mask wearing extreme leftists clashed with police and burned a police motorcycle, some cars and hospitalized some cops) Belgium's richest families have been exposed as tax avoiders as have some companies including Belgacom which is actually a state Telecom company. That same day it was also announced that the founder of Omega Pharma (a Belgian pharmacy company) sold his company for a few billion, with a personal profit of several 100 million € via his personal shares on which he will pay 0 taxes.

This is good ammunition for the unions especially since government refuses to negotiate and unions planned more actions, including a massive national strike.


It's scandalous how everyone is being bled, yet the Rich escape once again, kind of makes you cry out for their blood, sometimes I really think it's time we start dusting off the guillotines, a sociologist claimed this week that we are returning to the 19th century in wealth disparity. That's insane, all thanks to the American/British mindset that poisoned the world

[Basil II the B.S]

More reasons the EU is going to fail.

[sabaku_no_gaara]

A European superstate wouldn't be a bad thing, but it would never work, each country is too self obsessed for it to work, and this is logical, every memberstate treats the EU as if it's supposed to work in it's favour, add to that years of cowardly politicians blaming any unpopular measure on "Brussels" and you have a certain hostility towards the EU.

I think what we really need is a vigilante, someone who starts killing the rich whenever they make the news, you know: CEO X gains certain amount but pays no tax thanks to loophole Y and Z, and boom headshot the next day. I know that's impossible, but it would probably be the only entity they would fear, I mean no rich man is scared of government or law since his money and lawyer army can always bail him out or stall the case long enough for it to expire, Happened here in Belgium, a Judge who retired is being investigated, he's known as "the slowest Judge in Belgium" he made a case last 15 years to allow it to expire, it was a case of a "real estate agency" selling high end apartments on the coast that where to be built. Later it turned out the company was a father and son and they didn't even own the land, they fled with about 7,5 million to 15 million € after defrauding 300 families. And they are walking since the judge took his time investigating the case.

And we have a law that if you are under investigation, you can strike a deal with the justice department where you pay a settlement, this settlement is in no way a fine or an admission of guilt, after paying, the investigation ends... this aplies to crimes of fiscal/financial nature mostly, I believe the diamond sector made a lot of use of this law, and there was a company that risked a 2 billion € fine and settled for 90 million € I believe but I can't remember in what sector.

[SorelusImperion]

AH so you took that thing of burden of proof and just said...no evidence to prove there is not as though that satisfies burden of proof?

There is proof that the current situation doesn't work and by extenstion that it needs change. Common markets and interconnected economies require common rules and standards. It's not rocket science and historical trends prove that. Every state in existence is proof of these developements and trends.

You notion of simplicity involves the formation of a superstate, harmonised taxation beyond conventional double taxation agreements amounts to the EU becoming a giant state and the assumption that this is just automatically better just because it will close some tax loopholes based on your notion of satisfying the burden of proof is laughably simplistic.

Wait lets get this straight: You think a superstate is the only thing that allows a coordinated and consolidated taxation system ?

[Denny Crane!]

Yes that is the only way that you would get hormonised taxes. What if the prevailing logic is 75% income tax as France almost favoured? Most nations will not agree to that, the only way to get solid agreement across the board on tax raising powers which is basically a large part of what sovereignty is, is a superstate.

I can't believe you think if A is wrong then B is clearly the only possible answer. That is logical...somehow.

[DaVinci]

Yes that is the only way that you would get hormonised taxes. What if the prevailing logic is 75% income tax as France almost favoured? Most nations will not agree to that, the only way to get solid agreement across the board on tax raising powers which is basically a large part of what sovereignty is, is a superstate.

I can't believe you think if A is wrong then B is clearly the only possible answer. That is logical...somehow.

Might be basicly right, but the approach can still be different, EU law for the matter can create minimum-requirements which all EU countries have to realise in their sovereign country-laws, that principle is already applied for several EU-laws, those are a kind of umbrella-rights which EU countries have to bring on the way in their whatever way designed government-structures (from central orga to federal states to small community orga rights). The tax item here in reality shows, that the more deregulated these things are in the EU or just its participating countries, the more abuses/exploitations happen, simple fact (as said, certain consultant firms are specialised in this matter of tax-avoiding ... that, the latter will still happen, when certain tax-laws are created, tax-avoiding will be only more refined, but certainly, the states will make more tax-money than before, because it'll be harder to achieve/realise the tax-holes).