UK-Germany political tensions raise over immigration

[alhoon]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29877746

The Gist: England wants a quota on how many EU citizens could come to work in their borders. Germany disagrees and said they prefer to see UK out than let that pass.

Personally, I don't think it's any serious consideration that UK would leave the EU. But never the less, tensions are rising.

[DaVinci]

Having read nearly entirely the linked article ... imo. main conclusion is that Cameron's conservative party is scared of UKIP's approach in UK's power balance, wants to grab away some water from them.

[Bobz]

Having read nearly entirely the linked article ... imo. main conclusion is that Cameron's conservative party is scared of UKIP's approach in UK's power balance, wants to grab away some water from them.

That's the gist of it. The Conservative's have been split over Europe since the 1990s, and the recent emergence of UKIP as the party of protest has whipped the leadership into an anti-EU frenzy. The problem for them though is that pandering to the right holds the risk of alienating the voters in the centre ground, while a lot of the core Tory voters who these policies are aimed towards have already left for UKIP because they no longer trust the Conservatives.

Cameron knows full well he's asking the impossible by trying to renegotiate immigration.

[mongrel]

That's the gist of it. The Conservative's have been split over Europe since the 1990s, and the recent emergence of UKIP as the party of protest has whipped the leadership into an anti-EU frenzy. The problem for them though is that pandering to the right holds the risk of alienating the voters in the centre ground, while a lot of the core Tory voters who these policies are aimed towards have already left for UKIP because they no longer trust the Conservatives.

Cameron knows full well he's asking the impossible by trying to renegotiate immigration.

True. The Tories can never meet the demands of UKIP supporters. Gordon had similar credibility issues with his nonsensical "British jobs for British Workers" slogan. Why not some practical mechanisms for dealing with the downside of EU migration. For example better employment rights for all and the curbing of the way agencies attempt get round recruitment and minimum wage laws which nonetheless attracts East European labour who can claim benefits to top up their meagre earnings . But that takes guts and imagination to implement.

[hellheaven1987]

Wait, so now EU = Germany?

[DaVinci]

Wait, so now EU = Germany?

It was always so since the barbarian invasion ... look here, Angela is the re-born germanic female warrior ÆGLÆCA, but since emanzipation, leader of all tribes.

[alhoon]

Wait, so now EU = Germany?

No, it's still EU= 45% Germany, 35% France and 20% all the rest.

[hellheaven1987]

No, it's still EU= 45% Germany, 35% France and 20% all the rest.

Then why UK does not try to change the formula if it claims itself is a "leading nation of Europe"?

[Mangalore]

No, it's still EU= 45% Germany, 35% France and 20% all the rest.

What are those numbers supposed to say? It's not voting power, population, economy, what?


Does anyone in that article actually have any numbers concerning the number of EU citizens claiming benefits? In Germany such numbers were usually quite unimpressive. Strangely most people actually do stay to work.

[alhoon]

What are those numbers supposed to say? It's not voting power, population, economy, what?

It's irony born from frustration over Germany and France acting as they're the big bosses of EU which it has 28 members.

[Knight of Heaven]

What are those numbers supposed to say? It's not voting power, population, economy, what?


Does anyone in that article actually have any numbers concerning the number of EU citizens claiming benefits? In Germany such numbers were usually quite unimpressive. Strangely most people actually do stay to work.

Germany being the most populous country in the EU.... it wouldnt be an issue, only the EU is formed by sovereign nations...
I mean Merkel recently had the gall to say Portugal, and Spain have too many degree graduates.... As time passes by I have less and less patience to what the old Mutter has to say to be honest.
Some already responded saying that EU as too many leaders that are not up to the task at hand..sadly.

[DaVinci]

Germany being the most populous country in the EU.... it wouldnt be an issue, only the EU is formed by sovereign nations...
I mean Merkel recently had the gall to say Portugal, and Spain have too many degree graduates.... As time passes by I have less and less patience to what the old Mutter has to say to be honest.
Some already responded saying that EU as too many leaders that are not up to the task at hand..sadly.

Quite so ... don't believe that Merkel is seen by the germans as a healing-bringing mother (she has some reputation, but it is limited), and that what she says shouldn't be overestimated regarding EU issues, she is the current german chancelor, not more, despite that the german influence in EU items is not little, but a lot is hyped by the press as usually everything else as well (and most of all by the rainbow press - print and internet).

[Father Jack]

The whole EU thing at the moment is all about domestic UK politics, and mainly about the Conservatives fretting over UKIP taking their votes. The problem is that the Tories (and even Labour to an extent) have probably over calculated how much of an impact the UKIP vote will be, and have therefore leaped to the right in an effort to mitigate damage. The Tories in particular could split over the EU, which was a problem John Major faced in the 90s, the memory of which has become a bit of a bete noir for Cameron. UKIPs recent election and polling success has more to do with the public being disillusioned with the main political parties, rather than the British public being genuinely hateful towards the EU. There is also a lack of an effective opposition in British politics. The Labour party, which should currently be tearing into the Tories, is led by an incompetent sound-bite loving omnishambles. However, recent polls conducted by Ipsos Mori have placed those who want to stay in the EU at 56% and those wanting out at 36%. Similarly polls have also suggested that only 3% of the electorate feel as though the EU will be an important issue for the elections next May.
https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchp...s.aspx#gallery[m]/0/

Personally I believe the UK needs to remain part of the EU and I am certain it will. The EU its self does need dire reforms, but the best way to do that is by taking a lead in Europe, not having a nationalist tantrum on the sidelines. I am also fed up with British politicians fawning to the political fringes and shouty little Englanders. On a personal anecdote, I work for the NHS. The NHS would crumble if we didn't have doctors and nurses from the EU working here. But you know, 'dirty immigrants stealing benefits etc' makes a better tabloid headline for the mentally deficient to absorb.

[Denny Crane!]

And not one party is proposing it.

[mongrel]

And not one party is proposing it.

Beggars belief doesn't it? In fact the Tories did the exact opposite, loosening regulations and employment rights.

[Denny Crane!]

Beggars belief doesn't it? In fact the Tories did the exact opposite, loosening regulations and employment rights.

Thing is tightening up on Agency activity doesn't even have to involve massive changes to other employment rights. They could have left well alone but focused on...well the two key issues I can think is the way agencies get around minimum wage and giving employees rights despite having been employed enough time to acquire them. None of which effect long term employment per say.

[removeduser_487563287433]

It's amazing how flippant the EU is being with the severity of the situation in the UK. We are on the edge on leaving and the fact is the only thing standing between that is David Cameron's increasingly tenuous control of his own party. He's made the necessary moves - and been sabotaged by the EU at every turn. The request for 2bn was amazingly poorly timed, and if Merkel had just kept her trap shut in all likelihood Cameron could have just made some political bluster and nothing would have come from it.

It's been a month where UKIP has soared, Cameron's been weakened, and the EU have sent one message: we don't care if you do leave. As a young and relatively pro-Europe British citizen... I can't exactly see where my friends are, or who is looking to my future.

[Mangalore]

... The request for 2bn was amazingly poorly timed, and if Merkel had just kept her trap shut in all likelihood Cameron could have just made some political bluster and nothing would have come from it.

...

The request was perfectly timed aka this stuff is normal technical procedure on budget management probably happening every year but this year the UK made a fuss about it.

And that Merkel opens her trap mouth is the best indication that she is running out of patience and given how careful she normally is about taking a stance that UK probably has lost most support among other EU countries. I think the general position of most EU countries is that they have no intent to renegotiate everything just because the UK wants what most consider special treatment. Cameron kind of put himself in the corner because he has no suggestions towards the EU what reforms he precisely wants (that don't question the entire foundation of it) while having promised too much to EU sceptics.

[Stavroforos]

I can't exactly see where my friends are, or who is looking to my future.

[alhoon]

It's amazing how flippant the EU is being with the severity of the situation in the UK. We are on the edge on leaving

Is it really that serious Ferrets? I believed it was more talk than substance. England leaving the EU? That's too weird and big to contemplate. A lot of people I know go for work/studies in England.
How many England citizens want to leave EU? How many MPs want to leave EU?

I can't believe we've been brought to a point where I'm seriously discussing a rich, deeply European-culture country like England leaving. That's like saying Neatherlands or Belgium discussing to leave. That's just too weird...

Thats good news, you say. Not at all, according to Merkel.She today (read the news) that Spain and Portugal have too many university graduates.

There's no such thing as too many university graduates. That's like saying "There are too many people that can read" or "too many healthy people". I don't believe that Merkel would say such an insane thing. Perhaps there's been a mis-translation or something in the news reports.
Perhaps she meant too many unemployed graduates?