Why do sieges suck so much?

[Frtigern]

I don't know if anyone is having this problem, but I'm finding wall battles are terrible, especially with phalanxes. My last siege, I sent up two phalanx units up a ladder. They manage to get up and not be pressed on both sides. So one side is attacking. Their unit of hoplites manages to rout one of the phalanxes (160 vs 240), while the other I held in reserve, and when engaged nearly routs the second phalanx after losing a majority of its men. Its stupid to see them going up siege ladders and towers with their sarissas and then use them on the walls. Is there no way for them to have a proper secondary weapon like in EBI? I know I should've sent just sword armed infantry but when besieging the AI likes to bring up relief armies full of phalanxes, which would outnumber my armies of sword infantry and make it extremely hard to fight them back, so I have to bring phalanxes to sieges just for that reason. Oh and when they get up on the walls, the wall battles take a much longer time than in EBI. Like 1 man dies every 15 seconds. I hate to whine but it takes forever to fight on walls, so much that I don't even bother going on them anymore. I just build a bunch of rams and hopefully I get through, and head straight for the town square.

Also, separate issue but still an issue. You CAN'T capture towers. They still keep hitting you with arrows when your slowly trying to kill the AI. Then they keep hitting you killed the AI sentries and you have gone into them. Is this a M2TW or EBII thing? Can it be changed?

Sorry again if this has been mentioned before.

[Thuycidides]

Any AI unit near a tower causes it to shoot at you, even if the AI unit is on the ground! I agree it is pretty ridiculous.

[Armaneus]

Someone more qualified will answer, but as far as I understand it there is a problem with the M2 engine and pikemen. Namely that if you have pikemen with a secondary weapon, and you tell them to attack (or take them off guard mode, one of the two), they will drop their pikes at the soonest opportunity in favor of their swords. The problem is one's inability to have a giant wall of spears marching toward the enemy (you would have to bait the enemy into walking into your deathwall), and a lack of cohesion as some men would drop their pikes while others kept them in some circumstances. Some people came up with a simple solution: if they have only one weapon, they will use only one weapon. It works better than two weapons in most situations, except for sieges. Several members of the team (and others) are trying to come up with a solution (the How to Train Your Phalanx thread is the first to come to mind), but having difficulties. Sending phalanxes with their 3 attack and 9 defense will not do very well against most enemies except some archers (in melee)

As for sieges in general, yeah, they are tough. It is because morale is very high, defense in general is high, and unless you kill their general in view of the walls, the easiest solution is to fight with swordsmen on the walls. If you can get pikemen on the ground, and there aren't too many archers, then you can have your spiky-centipede-of-doom march down the streets and massacre the enemy. Unless your morale is low. Because your general marched his men from modern-day Uzbekistan to modern-day Turkey and has the "starving" trait (playing as Baktria, and have to conquer a city with Hellenistic Polites of at least 69% to be able to get better units/unlock reforms).

[_Tartaros_]

like armaneus said, me2 engine didn´t had a working phalanx formation. the one EB2 uses works perfect for me and i enjoy figthing with phalanxes in EB (didn´t miss the secondary weapon). You cant test the behaivor in DBM. There leviesphalanxes have a secondary weapon and they die like flees - in order to reflect there lower proffession . Btw, would be great if DBM could use EB´s phalanx animation. if i besiege cities i use swordunits or other meleespecialists to climp on walls. my phalanx will walk down the streets to the center (it´s there job to do so - remember, you didn´t fight with bowman against cav a.s.o.).

regarding the towers - if you don´t like this, use siegeengine and destroy them befor you storm this section of the walls. it should be no problem for human players to use tactics against the AI. giving them a small bonus of shooting towers seems fair to me and i didn´t have much problem (and you don´t have any problem if you behave like in real sieges - bombard the walls till there broken and then storm the sections.

[HarkonRules]

I didn't even know there was artillery in the game yet. What factions have it?

[Sar1n]

There is Oxybeles and Scorpion, but those are antipersonnel pieces. You'd need several units to put holes into stone walls.

[_Tartaros_]

for sure, i think they have 10 attack against buildings. don´t know if you can attack every turn and destory a bit more and hold the siege.

[Dago Red]

The main problem is the AI cramming into the city square en mass, making any siege drag out into the most boring slug fest in the center. every. time.

AI needs to NOT do that.