Palestinian militants hide behind innocents, again

[over-man]

BEIT HANOUN, Gaza Strip - Hundreds of Palestinian women in robes and head scarves streamed into a Gaza combat zone Friday to help free gunmen besieged by Israeli troops at a mosque. Two women who came under fire were killed and at least 10 wounded, but some gunmen managed to escape.

The women, many with ties to the Islamic militant group Hamas, left their homes after daybreak in response to appeals on the local Hamas radio station or telephone calls from friends and relatives. By nightfall, they were celebrated as heroes, an unusual role in a deeply conservative society that tends to keep women on the sidelines. Until Friday, battling Israeli troops had been men's business in Gaza.

The mosque standoff came on the third day of Israel's fiercest bid in months to halt Palestinian rocket fire on Israeli border communities. The offensive began Wednesday, when Israeli forces took over the northern Gaza town of Beit Hanoun, close to the border with Israel.

In all, 35 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza since Wednesday, including 17 on Friday. Among those killed Friday were the two women protesters, a 16-year-old boy, two medics and at least 10 militants. Most of the deaths Friday were a result of a series of Israeli air strikes after sundown. In the deadliest hit, five Palestinians were killed in an Israeli strike in the Jebaliya refugee camp.

The army said the strikes targeted militants trying to plant explosives or launch rockets.

As despicable as these methods are, one must appreciate the effective propoganda they produce.
Dead female protesters, even if they are providing cover for gunmen, couldn't possibly be more counter-productive for the Israelis. I wonder if these tactics will become even more common?

[sephodwyrm]

Many of them are perhaps war widows...
You know you have a problem when even women and children rise up AGAINST you...

[danzig]

As despicable as these methods are, one must appreciate the effective propoganda they produce.
Dead female protesters, even if they are providing cover for gunmen, couldn't possibly be more counter-productive for the Israelis. I wonder if these tactics will become even more common?

shrug its been ongoing by various groups for awhile now, its a win win situtation for them. Pallywood is alive and well, if the army fires at them they will no doubt hit some innocent people giving them a nice pr and if they dont fire the militants get free shots and get away. The problem is hypocritical nature of civilization that values women's lives more then men when it comes to warfare...these women went out there willingly making themselves imo justifiable targets but way the world works its more "tragic" to see one dead woman then 20 dead men.

Many of them are perhaps war widows...
You know you have a problem when even women and children rise up AGAINST you...

Or maybe they are just as whacko as the militants are...nice attempt to spin it though.

[sephodwyrm]

Pallywood is alive and well, if the army fires at them they will no doubt hit some innocent people giving them a nice pr and if they dont fire the militants get free shots and get away.

Which tends to happen when the people of Palestine actually support the militias.

The problem is hypocritical nature of civilization that values women's lives more then men when it comes to warfare...

The problem is the hypocritical nature of viewing the dead female civilians as equal to dead israeli soldiers.

[danzig]

The problem is the hypocritical nature of viewing the dead female civilians as equal to dead israeli soldiers.

The moment they stepped in front to protect the militants they lost the civilizan tag, they are enemy fighters.

[Fenris]

The problem is the hypocritical nature of viewing the dead female civilians as equal to dead israeli soldiers.

Oh, come on, they were not civilians anymore, they tried to cover gunners.

You know, in the Israelo-palestinian conflict, I tend to side with palestinians, because originally, they are the victims, however hiding soldiers among civilians, sorry, the civilians were hiding the soldiers is completly retarded. If I had been an israeli soldier, I would have shot too. This is no way of acting. What next, will they tie babies to their chest to prevent people from shooting them? This is no way of acting.

It could be any side doing this against any other side in any war and I would have said the same thing.

[k995]

Oh, come on, they were not civilians anymore, they tried to cover gunners.

You know, in the Israelo-palestinian conflict, I tend to side with palestinians, because originally, they are the victims, however hiding soldiers among civilians, sorry, the civilians were hiding the soldiers is completly retarded. If I had been an israeli soldier, I would have shot too. This is no way of acting. What next, will they tie babies to their chest to prevent people from shooting them? This is no way of acting.

It could be any side doing this against any other side in any war and I would have said the same thing.

Civilians are still civilians even when they hide militants.

By your logic, israel oculd execute everyone in a village for refusing to tell were the militants are.

When its an accident or when the militants keep firing at the IDF wich have no other choice then to fire back, then I would agree, but it seems this wasnt the case here.

[Freddie]

Civilians are still civilians even when they hide militants.

By your logic, israel oculd execute everyone in a village for refusing to tell were the militants are.

They got hurt because they were caught dancing with the devil.

Those civilians could have fled but they choose to stay, it was their choice and I commend them for wanting to protect there homes.

[k995]

They got hurt because they were caught dancing with the devil.

AS I said, that doesnt justify shooting them, I agree that they shouldnt complain if they were hit by accident But IDF soldiers shooting them is unacceptable for israel, civilians remain civilians even when hiding soldiers.

[VALIS]

well,we dont actually know all the facts yet so lets not jump to conclusions.

If the women had weapons and were firing at the israelis then........well "if you live by the sword,you die by the sword" no matter what gender you are.
if they were innocent bystanders and if the killings were intentional then of course it was unlawful and wrong.
If the israelis were trying to get militants(as in males) and got the women by accident,then that is terrible and a tragic accident,but war is war and innocents get killed,thats life!
it aint nice,but theres nothing that can be done.

[sephodwyrm]

The moment they stepped in front to protect the militants they lost the civilizan tag, they are enemy fighters.

And the moment the Israelis shot the women they will be vilified at once.
Lets take a look at the conduct of war carried out by the German armies or the Japanese armies in occupied territories in Russia and China. They execute civilians that have been harboring guerrillas.

Now who's the Nazi here?
I have seen enough of Palestinians being portrayed as Nazis, but we have to face some facts from the other side as well.

[danzig]

And the moment the Israelis shot the women they will be vilified at once.
Lets take a look at the conduct of war carried out by the German armies or the Japanese armies in occupied territories in Russia and China. They execute civilians that have been harboring guerrillas.

They would be vilified no doubt but not for the rather lame comparison you are attempting. There is absolutely *zero* comparison between going into a village and slaying civilizans harboring guerrillas and people actively participating in a fire fight as these women attempted to do. One is passively supporting and one is actively supporting, one is a valid target and the other one requires a need to win them over (hearts and minds).

Now who's the Nazi here?
I have seen enough of Palestinians being portrayed as Nazis, but we have to face some facts from the other side as well.

No one, the Nazis are gone or perhaps you didnt hear they were defeated during WW2 and all the leadership is long dead. I absolutely depise when people invoke the word Nazi, why cant be Mongols instead! Play your Nazi card else where. The Palenstinians arent Nazis nor are the Israelis.

[over-man]

They would be vilified no doubt but not for the rather lame comparison you are attempting. There is absolutely *zero* comparison between going into a village and slaying civilizans harboring guerrillas and people actively participating in a fire fight as these women attempted to do. One is passively supporting and one is actively supporting, one is a valid target and the other one requires a need to win them over (hearts and minds).

Like I said it's a lose-lose situation for the Israelis, they could have either played into the militant's hands and let the gunmen go or they could try and persue them causing collateral damage. This is why i think we will see more of these methods in the future.

[bigfootedfred]

Its almost a 'how dare they defend their own land' kind of thing...
Strange.

The Israelis continue bulldozing homes, and bombing refugee camps, and killing people in the streets and in their homes.
These are desperate people.

[dr0p]

Its almost a 'how dare they defend their own land' kind of thing...
Strange.

The Israelis continue bulldozing homes, and bombing refugee camps, and killing people in the streets and in their homes.
These are desperate people.

And what about Israeli troops trying to defend their own land from daily rocket launches fired from Beit Hanun which caused this entry from the first place?

The Palestinians continue shooting Qassam missiles on populated areas and cities, kill and kidnap Israeli soldiers outside Gaza and trying to become Shahids by exploding themselves near civilians in the streets and in their homes.
These are fanatical people, if even the word people fits to them.

[sephodwyrm]

The Palenstinians arent Nazis nor are the Israelis.

I will remember this line, well...very well.

Take note that on the 3rd of November, 2006, Danzig have made this statement.
Now we wait for the moment he becomes a hypocrite.

There is absolutely *zero* comparison between going into a village and slaying civilizans harboring guerrillas and people actively participating in a fire fight as these women attempted to do.

There is absolutely zero difference between dead Chinese or dead Palestinians. Both are dead, their lives ended through human means and human ingenuity, and both should have their cases argued.

[over-man]

There is absolutely zero difference between dead Chinese or dead Palestinians. Both are dead, their lives ended through human means and human ingenuity, and both should have their cases argued.

True, but there is a difference between those who killed them and why.

[danzig]

I will remember this line, well...very well.

Take note that on the 3rd of November, 2006, Danzig have made this statement.
Now we wait for the moment he becomes a hypocrite.

Note it all you want hell we can get a mod to attach it as a user note to me if you want, Ive been rather clear and consistent in drawing the line between Islamic radicals and average muslim be it Palestinian, Iranian or what have you. The only exception to that rule is when I openly mock those who have a blindly anti israeli point of view but that is aimed admittly to annoy the poster. Given the sheer number of hypocritical posts on TWC though I fail to see why I should be 'special' to you that you take note. I rarely use Nazi references, the one time I can remember was comparing a pro Iranian post to benfiting of Goebbels. So wouldnt hold your breath waiting.

There is absolutely zero difference between dead Chinese or dead Palestinians. Both are dead, their lives ended through human means and human ingenuity, and both should have their cases argued.

Your comparison is along the lines of a person crossing a street and being hit by a car and a person running out in middle of street and laying down waiting to be hit. One is openly courting disaster and one isnt, one should be mourned and one brought it upon themselves.

[Miraj]

No they are not hiding behind anybody. It's an extremely racist attitude towards Arabs that motivats people to think these stupid and insulting things. Only a person who thinks that Arabs are animals that can easily be persuaded by gunmen to let them be human sheilds.

The reality, if you wish to accept it or not is irrelevant, is that the civilians and common people support the resistance and are more than willing to lay down their lives for their beliefs - I understand that many of you are quite unfamiliar with this concept.

[Farnan]

No they are not hiding behind anybody. It's an extremely racist attitude towards Arabs that motivats people to think these stupid and insulting things. Only a person who thinks that Arabs are animals that can easily be persuaded by gunmen to let them be human sheilds.

The reality, if you wish to accept it or not is irrelevant, is that the civilians and common people support the resistance and are more than willing to lay down their lives for their beliefs - I understand that many of you are quite unfamiliar with this concept.

Last time I heard they aren't saying that the civilians are willingly human shields. The average civilian on both sides wants peace. The average Palestinian and the average Israeli are both good people, and when taking out of their environment Palestinians and Israeli people get along. It has happened many times when a Palestinian and an Israeli are brought to the US and they are isolated from the people telling them to hate each other. The problem is that radicals want to preserve the war for their own personal gain. They manipulate situations and blame the other for all the problems in their country so that they can't be blamed...

And actually its impossible to be racist towards Arabs, because Arab is not a race. Arab simply means someone who speaks Arabic. If you mean the people we commonly consider Arab, then the Palestinians don't fit in that category. You can be predjudged towards Arabs though...