Manifesto against religious hypocrisy

[Fenris]

You claim you are christian, and that you are somewhat a good christian, that you know your god and your religion, but on the other hand, you advocate the killing of people, which is all what your religion stands against. But too many people like to forget some aspects, and just take the ones that please them. it would be too hard not to be violent. Oh well, I guess I'll act like if the bible didn't say not to be violent. Hypocrisy.

Face it, you are not a christian, just like 99% of the so-called christians are not christians even if they claim they are because their action goes against what the christ said in that book of yours. You are no better than the violent muslims you loathe, you accuse them of calling for violence, but in answer you call for violence on them. That is hypocrisy and the kind of hypocrisy that plagues humanity in it's very root, for there are too many people like you.

At least assume yourself and stop claiming your are christian. You know, in these forums, some might have seen that I don't show a lot of respect for religious people in general, but there is some religious people I personally know I respect extremely, for they are real. Their faith shows through kindness, goodness and all those value that are the very base of the moral code. Your faith, just like most people on the forum (and in the world) shows through hate, opposition, intolerance, etc.

About 90% of the bible tells you how you should love everryone, but what religious people see is the sentence that condones homosexuality, or even the absence of anything that condones drug usage (in the bible), for example. And they go around the whole point of the book that says LOVE.

And these people, these people my friend, are hopeless, they'll be the first to be denied heaven if heaven there is.

Who do you think god will allow by his side. The skeptics who didn't believe in him or his son, but were as good as they could to the others, who opposed war and violence, took a few drugs, were homosexual,...? Or those warmongers who do all they could to spoil god's name by calling for violence, preaching intolerance and whacking off while watching guns?

I personally know who has the better chances.

*This does not apply to the 1% of christian who are true.
** This is directed toward christians because they are the main religious population on the board, but by changing a few words it could apply to most religions, and even most political ideas. Actually it could apply to quite a lot of things.

[Ummon]

I absolutely do not know if God will allow me by His side, nor do I care. I strive to better myself so that He can use me for something good, that's all. If He wishes, I will be saved.

[Fenris]

I absolutely do not know if God will allow me by His side, nor do I care. I strive to better myself so that He can use me for something good, that's all. If He wishes, I will be saved.

All I am saying is: Don't call yourself a christian if you go against what he said. And what he said is not don't be homosexual or don't take drug, etc. It's stop caring about wealth and love. Two things that I don't see are much respected.

Because under christian conception, improving yourself means following in a better way what god said. However by advocating violence, you are only making yourself worse by TRUE christian standard.

[Ummon]

Sometimes adults must decide that they disagree with their dad as well. If he disinherits them, well, that happens.

[Fenris]

Sometimes adults must decide that they disagree with their dad as well. If he disinherits them, well, that happens.

So, basically you are calling yourself a christian, but at the same time assume that you are going against what he said?

So what makes you a christian beside the fact that you believe god exist? A christian is someone who follow the way the christ has directed. You are not, therefore you are not christian.

And compare what you said about yourself to what you are saying about muslims. Hypocrisy.

[Ummon]

No, I'm saying that those christians who disagree with their religion on something are free adults making their choices.

I call myself myself.

[Fenris]

No, I'm saying that those christians who disagree with their religion on something are free adults making their choices.

I call myself myself.

But if they disagree with their religion are not christian. And you are one of them, it seems. So you are not a christian, you believe in the christian god, but you do against his will, against him.

[Ummon]

Nobody ever agrees with anybody else. This is the meaning of: I am not here to bring peace but a sword. Jesus can show us the way, but we are the only ones able to apply it in the situations we face. In Buddhism, masters have to be killed (metaphorically) at a certain point. If you see the Buddha in the street, kill him! The Buddha cannot be in the street because he is inside you.

What a pupil does is studying to raise his own insignias as a master. When dealing with a man-God it's not so easy, of course.

If you let God enter your soul, and replace your Ego, though, surely you will do something well. Not as well as Jesus, but Jesus is not here to do better.

[Lavastein]

why only chrisitans? why cant you talk to radical muslims who regularly blow people up? why just us christians? cause we are a majority? thats not fair sir.

[Fenris]

why only chrisitans? why cant you talk to radical muslims who regularly blow people up? why just us christians? cause we are a majority? thats not fair sir.

Read all my post, there is a notice at the end. And even if I would target ONLY christians, what would it matter? The point still stands. Stop whining.

True Christians as you call them are loved by God because they are purely good.

But I know plenty of atheists who I could say the same thing about them...

I am pretty sure, but I think God understands the concept behind doing one evil deed to prevent the doing of hundreds of evil deeds against others. One step back before you can take more steps foreward.

But everything Jesus said goes against that logic... are you saying you know better than Jesus?

True Christians as you call them are loved by God because they are purely good. Most Christians, those you claim to not be Christian, are as good as they can be in their lifetime. They believe fully in Him, and do as best they can to make the world a better place. God understands that. If he didn't, he wouldn't deserve to be called Lord.

But they act against what god said. And you, for one, is included in the false christians I talk of. If you are aware of it, why do you continue in the path of opposing god's will? And following your logic Ku Klux Klanmen will be in heaven also because they did as good as they could in their lifetime and believed fully in him. If you contradict this, you are using double standards.

So basically what you say is: you can do whatever you like, oppose the word of god by your actions, but as long as "you believe fully in him" you will be rewarded? That's nonsense, your book contradicts this.

You are only trying to find ways out and to find excuses for your behaviour, which is very typical of this "pseudo-religious people class" I am talking about. That's called hiding one's head in the ground.

[Pnutmaster]

You are only trying to find ways out and to find excuses for your behaviour, which is very typical of this "pseudo-religious people class" I am talking about. That's called hiding one's head in the ground.

...Or recognizing that few can achieve the literal demands of their respective holy books. You may call, Mudd, for example, a 'false Christian', but I believe that would require a revision of the word 'Christian'.

Unless Mudd considers himself a Christian fundamentalist, I see no reason why his (or anyone's) general status as a Christian should be questioned.

[Fenris]

...Or recognizing that few can achieve the literal demands of their respective holy books.

There is a difference between: "not being able to achieve the literal demands of their respective holy books" and going straight against these demands. And the worse thing is that they'll look at a hippy happy-go-lucky who hurts no one and is against war, and they will diss him. Because he doesn't produce enough material wealth. How can you go that much against it? If you want to go against what christianity tells you to do (the real christianity, as in the bible), then at least stop pretending you are christian and that you are following christianity only because you are against abortion, against gay marriage, etc. This is not what christianity is about.

You may call, Mudd, for example, a 'false Christian', but I believe that would require a revision of the word 'Christian'.

The word christian has no other meaning than being those who follow the word of the christ, can we agree on that? Well I don't see many christians following the word of the christ actually...

Unless Mudd considers himself a Christian fundamentalist, I see no reason why his (or anyone's) general status as a Christian should be questioned.

Because not only they are not following the word of christ, but they are doing exactly the inverse of what he said.

[xopium]

why only chrisitans? why cant you talk to radical muslims who regularly blow people up? why just us christians? cause we are a majority? thats not fair sir.

Why is it that whenever anyone validly makes a point on something concerning Western culture someone else compares it to Islam or the Middle East straight away...? Yet if someone compares it to other religions like Sikhism or Judaism they're labeled intolerant or an anti-semite. I guess Jesus was a anti semetic Nazi then... oh wait he was originally a Jew.

I agree with Fenris' point 100 percent. Some (SOME, not ALL) Christians only seem to focus on the punishments or the repercussions for doing something sinful. I can't believe the amount of people that believe they are sinless and think they are in a position to attack others and say they're going to Hell for not adhereing to indirect or vague at best rules of Christianity while they completely contradict outlined ones.

It's those kinds of people that repulse others from becoming christian and it is an utterly babyish way to act of a religion which teaches you to love the sinner but hate the sin, not the other way around.

I must say that I admire nuns and monks for dedicating their lives to something not even for personal gain. Not many people would be prepared to do that.

[Yosemite]

why only chrisitans? why cant you talk to radical muslims who regularly blow people up? why just us christians? cause we are a majority? thats not fair sir.

Have you ever heard that in islam, if you suicid yourself, it's hell? And on top of that, if you kill innocent, it's more hell? :hmmm:

[sephodwyrm]

why cant you talk to radical muslims who regularly blow people up?

Radical Muslims blow people up just once usually, because they tend to blow themselves up as well.
Unless we're talking about people with 47 lives as a result of getting 94 million points on Ikaruga...
LOL!

[Sétanta]

I am pretty sure, but I think God understands the concept behind doing one evil deed to prevent the doing of hundreds of evil deeds against others. One step back before you can take more steps foreward.

True Christians as you call them are loved by God because they are purely good. Most Christians, those you claim to not be Christian, are as good as they can be in their lifetime. They believe fully in Him, and do as best they can to make the world a better place. God understands that. If he didn't, he wouldn't deserve to be called Lord.

[Silver Guard]

I am pretty sure, but I think God understands the concept behind doing one evil deed to prevent the doing of hundreds of evil deeds against others. One step back before you can take more steps foreward.

Isn't that was Hitler said? Wipe out all lesser rces before he could make the world a better place for his people, the aryans, I'm sure God understood, pity he was defeated realy

True Christians as you call them are loved by God because they are purely good.

There are Atheists who are more 'truly good' then any Christian, they have to be, Christians being good are in themselves working towards heaven, Atheists have no such obligation, their good acts are just that.

Most Christians, those you claim to not be Christian, are as good as they can be in their lifetime. They believe fully in Him, and do as best they can to make the world a better place

No they're not, not many Christians give up their lives to help the starving in Africa, give their lives to the keeping of peace in the world. No, they are far to preoccupied making money for themselves, even monks and nuns who sit in monastries all their lives are not good, they do nothing for the rest of the world, only for themselves.

. God understands that. If he didn't, he wouldn't deserve to be called Lord.

Maybe he's as judgemental as the bible descibes, wiping out entire cities because they have a hedonist lifstyle, ordering the massacre of populations because they do not bow to him. Killing off those of his favorites who do not do exactly as he says.

[Zenith Darksea]

No they're not, not many Christians give up their lives to help the starving in Africa, give their lives to the keeping of peace in the world. No, they are far to preoccupied making money for themselves, even monks and nuns who sit in monastries all their lives are not good, they do nothing for the rest of the world, only for themselves.

Oh no? Perhaps you haven't heard of organisations like the International Orthodox Christian Charities or Christian Aid. And as for monasteries, you're forgetting the huge amount of work done by monks and nuns in nursing the mentally and physically ill, in charity work, and going out to help people in impoverished communities. Though you may have your own prejudiced and ignorant imagination of the monk who never leaves his monastery or do anything but pray, you might just find that the truth is more attractive.

True, there are people who claim to be Christians who may be hypocrites, but calling 90% of them hypocrites is ridiculous. Again, this is nothing more than anti-theist prejudice with no basis in facts. To say that there are not many Christians going out to help people in Africa is an excellent example of this bare-faced falsehood.

[Silver Guard]

Oh no? Perhaps you haven't heard of organisations like the International Orthodox Christian Charities or Christian Aid. And as for monasteries, you're forgetting the huge amount of work done by monks and nuns in nursing the mentally and physically ill, in charity work, and going out to help people in impoverished communities

Perhaps you enjoy ignoring sections of my post or twisting them?
even monks and nuns who sit in monastries all their lives are not good
As you can see I wasn't commenting on those who go out and give aid now was I?
I've heard of these charities, but what proportion of Christians activly aid these? By donating all their income or working for them? 1%? Perhaps less?

True, there are people who claim to be Christians who may be hypocrites, but calling 90% of them hypocrites is ridiculous. Again, this is nothing more than anti-theist prejudice with no basis in facts. To say that there are not many Christians going out to help people in Africa is an excellent example of this bare-faced falsehood.

Are there two or three billion Christians? Two wasn't it? Before discarding what I say as "ridiculous" or has "no basis in facts" go find out how many people work in these organisations and tell me more then 10% of Christians do things to aid the poorer nations, beyond keeping a charity box with small change.

[Zenith Darksea]

As you can see I wasn't commenting on those who go out and give aid now was I?

Oh, of course, yes, that makes so much sense, doesn't it? Rather like saying, "Nobody believes in God. Of course, I'm not talking about those people who believe in God." Since you were apparently only commenting on those monks and nuns who don't give anybody aid, you seem to be referring to a minority so small as to not be representative. Bit of a pointless thing to say, don't you think?

I've heard of these charities, but what proportion of Christians activly aid these? By donating all their income or working for them? 1%? Perhaps less?

Hmm, let's see. I don't have any exact statistics, but let's take my own Orthodox church here in Oxford as a representative example. Recently a fund-raising drive was held for the Lebanese. It raised over a thousand pounds from a congregation that numbers less than a hundred. That's just one instance - every week the congregation (yes, all of it) gives over some of their money to the Church charities, and we regularly organise various events to raise funds for a number of different causes, as well as actually going out and making food for the disadvantaged et al. Now, by you definition, there would be less than one of us who did this; however, we are all involved! Now, you might say, "Ah, but you don't donate all your income!" Maybe not, but we do try to do so in proportion with what we earn. We do have to eat for ourselves, naturally, and we give just as much as any atheist might give.

Before discarding what I say as "ridiculous" or has "no basis in facts" go find out how many people work in these organisations and tell me more then 10% of Christians do things to aid the poorer nations, beyond keeping a charity box with small change.

Oh dear, another 'ridiculous' statement. Ok, not every Christian works directly for an aid organisation. That would be impractical, and would mean that our economies would grind to a halt. However, the giving of money is also helping poorer nations, and we give rather more than 'small change'. I would point you once more to the thousand pounds that less than a hundred of us raised for one single charity - we also raise money for many others. Again, your statement is shot through with prejudice.