What can we do about Extremism - Threads Merged

[Ahiga]

We've had fearmongers/foward-thinking people tell us that Islam is gearing up for a world war against us, or that extremism is becomming the majority and not the minority. I'm sure everyone not from a cave in mars knows about all this. So the question is short and simple at a first glance, but proves to not be that simple when we discuss it:

What can we do to stem or stop the tide of the spread of Islam? What is it you think should be done to those who have strong opinions against Islam? If you suggest nuking the entire middle east pre-emptively, then there's simply no helping you and you're an idiot. Feel free to post it so everyone else knows that, though. But I am curious to hear what solutions we posters we would contemplate, even if they are not feasible or not likely to work.

Quite simply, how would you fight this 'war on Islamic terror'?

[VALIS]

treat palestine the same way we treat israel?

[Rush Limbaugh]

treat palestine the same way we treat israel?

Yes thats what its all about. Give me a break.

[Fenris]

Yes thats what its all about. Give me a break.

That would be a good start, no?

And don't you see that this is proof the the creation of Israel has nothing to do with the inherant extremism within Islam?

But the extremism we are facing today has Israel as a root. If we left the muslim world alone, why do you think they would even care about us? You know the extremism has risen extremely in all the muslim world since the Afghan and Irak invasion. In many, many countries extremism was almost non-existant, women didn't have to hide themselves under pieces of clothes, but since only a few years, it is almost the norm in every of these countries. I remember the reaction of my friend (she is from Algeria) when she went not too long ago, she said it was totally different then from when she was young. And even then, Algeria is still moderate! Do you really think it came out of nowhere? That they said all of a sudden, bah, these guys over there don't have the same religion, let's just blow up ourselves to kill as many as possible? No. Thinking that it came out of nowhere and that they are the only ones responsible for what is happening in the world is burying your head in the ground. And don't start saying I am excusing the extremists, because I am not, I am only saying that some people need to look at their own behaviour before judging the other's...

[mrjesushat]

Well, technically speaking, extremist Islam does not exist. Rather, there are extremist groups, claiming to be Muslim, who are not generally accepted as good Muslims (or in some cases, are not considered Muslim at all) by many mainstream Muslims.

Identifying terrorists strictly in terms of their titular association with Islam is both sloppy and ill-informed. It is also essentially an ancient political tactic that oversimplifies a very complex set of relationships in order to fan the flames of fear and hatred to benefit or create a given power base. In other words, associating Islam with terrorism and extremism is akin to Hitler associating the Jews with Germany's economic ruin, or Nero blaming the burning of Rome on those crazy Christians.

For instance, we all know that Christianity as a religion breeds weird and dangerous cults and ideologies such as what we have seen in recent years at Waco, Ruby Ridge, and the Oklahoma City Bombing. And of course, Ku Klux Klansmen are fierce and ferocious in representing their hate-club as Christian. Christians clearly cannot be trusted, and must be feared by all. We should put Christians suspected of extremist beliefs into internment camps in say...Puerto Rico, where we can secretly torture and humiliate them in order to know what evil plots the Monolithic Association of Dark Christian Cults is up to.

What do "we" do about Extremist Islam? Recognize that it is not Islamic. Recognize that it is the same madness shared by hundreds of thousands around the globe, from every religious, cultural, ethnic and political background. The motivating ethos that one cult or paramilitary club or another chooses to claim is not ever to be associated with others who are not involved in any similar activities, yet adhere to what is clearly a related ethos or ideology.

Save the racism and the bigotry for when we'll really need it.

I'm talking about when the aliens come. It's okay to hate aliens on the basis of their identity, since they're not even human.

[Syron]

treat palestine the same way we treat israel?

Israel has nothing to do with the extremism, it is simply a high profile excuse for it.

[Ahiga]

Israel has nothing to do with the extremism, it is simply a high profile excuse for it.

So then the fact that we had practically 95% less islamic terrorism or issues with extremism prior to the creation of Israel is just a co-ink-e-dink? It's probably not just 95% but 99%..

If they were to the level they are at today, there would be no way without genocide of the population that the British or French could have ever controlled the islamic countries they did. They dealt with insurgents like occupying army, but it wasn't to the severity which it is today.

[Syron]

So then the fact that we had practically 95% less islamic terrorism prior to the creation of Israel is just a co-ink-e-dink?

It's probably not just 95% but 99%..

Islamic extremism has existed for as long as Islam has, the only difference between the past and now is it's methods. Or are you seriously telling me that events like the Hebron Massacre weren't the result of Islamic extremism?

I demand evidence for your figures since they quite obviously aren't true.

[VALIS]

Israel has nothing to do with the extremism, it is simply a high profile excuse for it.

well please educate me then.
what is the cause for extremism?

[Ahiga]

well please educate me then.
what is the cause for extremism?

Islam itself

Islamic extremism has existed for as long as Islam has, they only difference between the past and now is it's methods. Or are you seriously telling me that events like the Hebron Massacre weren't the result of Islamic extremism?

Yeah, islamic extremism has lasted since it existed as a religion, but so has Christian extremism, but we hardly have the trouble with that which we have with Islam today. The reasons are many, but involve our nations being secular, as well as reasons for that antagonism not existing. It doesn't just flash up for absolutely no reason.

So we'll be bringing the past into play? Alright, here we go, from Wiki:

During the 1929 Hebron massacre, 67 Jews Hebron were murdered by Arabs. The rest of the Jewish community was evacuated by the British.

The Cave of the Patriarchs massacre on February 25, 1994, in which 29 Muslim worshippers were murdered by Baruch Goldstein. Another 35 lives were lost from both sides in the riots that followed. - An Israeli terrorist? Oh nope. He's probably seen as a martyr. [This was featured as part of the disambiguous page in wiki]

It is simply semantics in what I said for 'the creation of israel'. Zionism existed at the turn of the century and thus, the forming of the state of Israel was underway, even if the nation itself was not established. Don't try and say that Islam inherantly hates jews, because for all the incidents you'll find, there will be the fact that they often found salvation amongst the muslims (Fatimids and Spain being examples) in contrast to the Christians in the past.

[Syron]

Yeah, islamic extremism has lasted since it existed as a religion, but so has Christian extremism, but we hardly have the trouble with that which we have with Islam today.

And don't you see that this is proof the the creation of Israel has nothing to do with the inherant extremism within Islam?

So we'll be bringing the past into play, hmmh? Alright, here we go, from Wiki:

During the 1929 Hebron massacre, 67 Jews Hebron were murdered by Arabs. The rest of the Jewish community was evacuated by the British.

The Cave of the Patriarchs massacre on February 25, 1994, in which 29 Muslim worshippers were murdered by Baruch Goldstein. Another 35 lives were lost from both sides in the riots that followed. - An Israeli terrorist? Oh nope. He's probably seen as a martyr. [This was featured as part of the disambiguous page in wiki]

It is simply semantics in what I said for 'the creation of israel'. Zionism existed at the turn of the century and thus, the forming of the state of Israel was underway, even if the nation itself was not established.

Eh? How the **** does Zionism excuse the Hebron massacre? It was extremism.

Don't try and say that Islam inherantly hates jews, because for all the incidents you'll find, there will be the fact that they often found salvation amongst the muslims (Fatimids and Spain being examples) in contrast to the Christians in the past.

Did I say that? No, so don't put words in my mouth!

But btw, this has nothing to do with Islamic extremism at all and I question what you mean by salvation.

Edit: I apologise for my bad language. My browser is playing up and so I’m a bit irate at the mo.

Forgiven, but next time, edit out the bad language if you are worried about the potential reaction. :wink:

[darthtator]

I know exactly what you mean, but the spread of Islam isn't necessarily a bad thing. Fighting the war on Islamic extremism should be done by education. Since there are those who can twist the minds of young people, the best efforts should be made to teach Muslims about the peaceful nature of their religion (as well as the tolerance that it preaches) before those with political interests get involved. The key is to encourage independent thought amongst young Muslims by showing them the power of religion or spirituality over those who will try to fill their minds with radical political ideologies (it happens in all cultures on the face of the planet).

treat palestine the same way we treat israel?

That would GREATLY help, the Palestinians being affected who have no part in the conflict really do need support and help, it's going to stop the spread of extremist ideologies.

[over-man]

How many tibetans are blowing themselves up?

[Ahiga]

Not many.

Also, let's bring the topic back on track. Rush, Syron - What would you propose to deal with Islamic extremism? You're ready and willing to criticize them, what can you suggest to try and improve the situation?

[over-man]

Not many.

Also, let's bring the topic back on track. Rush, Syron - What would you propose to deal with Islamic extremism? You're ready and willing to criticize them, what can you suggest to try and improve the situation?

Whats wrong with criticism and why do we owe our help to them?

[Ahiga]

Whats wrong with criticism and why do we owe our help to them?

You don't owe it to them. You owe it to your children so that there -isnt- a world war with islam. It's obvious that none of us will come up with the award-winning solution to peace in the middle east, but it is worth discussing to see where people's opinions lie on how the middle east might become peaceful, and how we might not suffer another 9-11.

Send them all to Club Gitmo

We'd have to take over the carribean to have enough space..and if they get a free ticket to the carribean, maybe I should convert. :tooth:

[Rush Limbaugh]

Also, let's bring the topic back on track. Rush, Syron - What would you propose to deal with Islamic extremism? You're ready and willing to criticize them, what can you suggest to try and improve the situation

Send them all to Club Gitmo

[sephodwyrm]

What can we do to stem or stop the tide of the spread of Islam?

Nothing except to be a good person.

What is it you think should be done to those who have strong opinions against Islam?

Nothing except to be a good person.

If you're talking about extremist Islam, this is what I think might work:
Work together with moderate Muslims and help defeat that extremist factions that's actually terrorizing them as well.

[Rush Limbaugh]

this is what I think might work:
Work together with moderate Muslims and help defeat that extremist factions that's actually terrorizing them as well.

I think the moderate Muslims must first make a real attempt to defeat these factions . So far Ive seen little evidence of it.

[sephodwyrm]

I think the moderate Muslims must first make a real attempt to defeat these factions .

Moderate Muslims have no power in their home countries, most often a military government or an absolute monarchy, and when they do have the opportunity to vote something in power, it is cried foul because it is not a military government nor an absolute monarchy.

Something that must be known is that more moderate Muslims have been killed by Islamic terrorists. The first victim of Islamic Terrorism is moderate (and what I think as true) Islam. Most of us are too scared to do anything, or say anything, except when we're in westernized countries and yet are at the same time powerless to do anything.