Factions Overhauled in Vae Victis

[Roach]

Vae Victis Faction List

Here are the 114 playable factions listed by geographic region.
The 70 factions that have been overhauled so far are marked in bold.
Factions that are in the process of being overhauled are marked as “(researching)”.
Links to previews are included when available.

Spanish Iberia
Iberia previews here and here.
Lusitani
Edetani
Cessetani
Gallaeci
Celtici
Cantabri
Turdetani
Arevaci

Gaul (France)
Treverii
Sequani
Pictones
Aedui
Volcae
Averni
Vivisci
Atrebartes
Veneti
Carnutes
Helvetii

Britannia
Dumnonii
Trinovantes
Demetae
Brigantes
Wotadini
Iwerni

Germania
Germanic Preview
Nervii
Boii
Frisii
Lugii
Rugii
Aestii
Suebi
Gutones
Cherusci
Cimbri
Chatti
Volci

Northern Italy
Massalia
Insubres
Liguria
Nori (Will be redone)
Raeti
Cenomani Veneti

Southern Italy
Etruscan League
Rome

Socii Preview

Auxilia Preview

Syracuse

North Africa
Carthage
Lybia
Gaetuli
Masaesyli (researching)
Garamantia (Researching)
Nasamones
Cyrene
Ptolemaic Egypt
Blemmyes
Meroe (researching)
Axum (deleting)

Greece
Sparta
(Achaean League - custom & mp battles only)
Athens
Aetolian League
Epirus
Macedon (researching)
Krete
Rhodes

Balkan Region
Tylis (Will be redone)
Triballi
Ardiaei
Biephi
Daorsi
Delmatae
Odryssian Kingdom
Breuci (Will be redone)
Getae (Will be redone)
Bastarnae (Will be redone)
Anartes (Will be redone)
Eravisci (Will be redone)
Scordisci (Will be redone)

Anatolia & Syria
Pergamon (Researching)
Bithynia preview
Galatia
Pontus
Cappadocia
Seleucid Empire (researching)

Caucasus
Armenia Preview
Colchis
Iberia (researching)
Albania
Media Atropatene

Northern Nomads
Budini
Catiaroi
Royal Scythia
Cimmerian Bosporus (researching)
Siraces
Aorsoi
Roxolani
Thyssagetae
Massagetae
Khorasmii
Parthia preview

Iranian Satrapies
Media
Parthava
Susiana (researching)
Persia (researching)
Carmania
Aria
Arachosia (researching)
Baktria

Arabian Tribes
Nabatea
Ma'in
Himyar
Saba
Mascat
Gerrhaea
Quidri

[Prince of Judah]

I copied this from a word file in my dropbox. Please give pikemen to Meroe.


Strabo's geography describes some battles where Nubians overpower Roman garrisons in upper Egypt (upper Egypt means southern Egypt) and among their arms was pikes. I know pike is the correct translation because the Greek word used is kontous, not dory. Dory means spear. Among their weapons were axes, swords, spears, pikes, and oblong shields. This army attacked the Romans around 25 BC under the command of 'Candace.' Candace is not a name but it means 'queen' in the Nubian or Meroitic language. The influence here is more Greek and Egyptian however. After Alexander the Great died, his general Ptolemy took over EGypt and Egypt was ruled by a Greek dynasty. They used Pikes (sirassas) as a significant part of their armies and there were some battles and skirmishes from 300- maybe 150 BC between Ptolmaic Egypt and Nubia. Nothing major to my knowledge, but plenty to show the Nubians the advantages of using pikes.

[Roach]

Thanks I'll run this past our Meroe researcher. I know he has looked at all the primary source material including Strabo. The passage says: "They soon fled, being badly commanded, and badly armed; for they carried large shields made of raw hides, and hatchets for defensive weapons; some, however, had (kontous), and others swords."

Going off my own knowledge base, kontos is the word used for the heavy cavalry lance that was popularized by the Parthians (the Macedonian/Successor sarissa was much longer and thinner), so we'll have to study this carefully. I do know that word use changes over time and so we'll have to take a look at how kontos is used elsewhere in the 1st century AD to see how likely a traditional foot pike meaning is. Strabo was writing in Greek and obviously had perfectly good words available to him for the pike, but I'm sure we'll find an answer one way or another with enough digging

Ok, some quick poking around hasn't cleared things up entirely. Kontos is indeed usually reserved for cavalry, but (for a yet unknown reason) when Strabo uses it is generally translated as "pike" and when Arrian a century later uses it for Roman infantry it is clearly a one handed spear (maybe longer than usual hasta?). We'll be sure to give this question the careful study it deserves!

edit: Lucian (2nd century AD) also gives the kontos to infantry but again it is not clear what he means (λογχοφόρον καὶ κοντοφόρον) - a heavy non-throwable spear fits better than pike here despite some past translations (the passage is talking about two bodyguards and a true pike is almost laughable in the hands of a single man).

[LinusLinothorax]

I dont think Strabo relates to the pike we call "Sarissa", but to the average spear. Spears were a common weapon in ancient Cush, not only for low tier warriors but even for qores (Kings/Queens), as we can see on several reliefs. However, these spears were only between around 1,7 m and 2 m long.
What also speaks against sarissas is the fact that Strabo mentions that the "Ethiopians were weak organized" (Though we seriously have to ask ourselves if Strabo just tried to make the enemy of Rome look bad, as Strabo was a Roman). Upkeeping a phalanx formation definetly requires some discipline and training.

Phalanxes at all are very unlikely for Cushitic armies, as melee infantry was never the centrepiece of Cushitic armies, but their excellent archers. So i seriously doubt Meroe copied any kind of Hellenistic style warfare, even if they got decently hellenized in our timeframe.

Apropos kontos: I found a piece of pottery depicting a Cushitic rider fighting a lion, with charging at it while holding his spear just as the Diadochi and Parthian cataphracts did (Well, atleast he is holding the spear with two hands while attacking). However, in comparison the spear the rider is holding is really short.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Edit: I was wrong, this pottery doesnt show an accurate depiction of a Cushitic rider, but is rather only a 1:1 copy of a Roman pottery. Shame on me.

[whitewolfmxc]

this should be sticky ed XD

[Antelopev2]

I would like to announce that Friidrotta aka Antelope is back

[Magnar]

welcome back mate

[Antelopev2]

thanks magnar

[Antelopev2]

I should be getting the Caucases research done by the end of FEB