TW-Noob seeking for tactical advise

[elikal]

Well, I never played any TW game before, but I thought wth... I played dozens of RTS games, it cant be THAT difficult. Well, my pride got several deep bruises in trying out the demo and loosing all those battles time and again. (I use the 2nd demo btw, I heard it was more difficult?)

Anyway, I see I am not well prepared, so maybe you tactical experts can give me your advise about the knots and bolts of this game. If you are not sure what you are doing wrong, its difficult to ask the right questions, but I do have a few.

1. What does Skirmish and Guard mean, and what exactly does it do?

2. What are the prisoners for?

3. When I am attacked from flank or behind, do I have to turn the Archers (or whatever ranged unit) into that direction manually, or can I simply target the new unit and they shoot the other way? (Like the rear attackers in Agincourt)

4. Is there any gain if I place ranged fighters in a long line, or do they do the same damage if cramped in many lines behind each other?

5. Some say the just make a short charge with cavalry. How exactly does that work? Often I find my cavalry often heavily decimated all too soon.

6. Is there a paper-rock-scissors system, where one unit type always is superior/inferior to another as in many other strategy games (like the typical, never use riders against pikeman)?

7. I usually use the run not the walk, because otherwise I feel the enemy will flank or rear attack my army. I never played with a game that has some fatigue, how important is fatigue really?


Overall I found those 3 historical battles very difficult, but also very exciting. I'd love to play this game, but I fear I might not get far, if everything is that difficult. Are there some useful guides (thats one of the opportunities I really would buy one of those Primax book guides, heh, since all is so new and confusing to me still.) ^^

I welcome all adsive from experiences Generals.

Oh and btw, what is the goal in Pavia? I always only get a draw. Dunno why.

PPS: I find the camera awful - but maybe its just me. Within one game, the cursor suddenly changes, one time shifting the camera, then suddenly turning it around. Is that a bug, or something in the settings/handling?? It's pretty unintuitive. :/

[Spart]

Briefly:
1.Skirmish enables archers and other missile troops to run away if the enemy comes too close. Guard mode makes troops to stand still and defend.
2. No need for prisoners in demo, in full version they can be set free, executed or ransomed.
3. Just click to attack, so they'll turn. With normal units, always adjust them to face the enemy if you're defending.
4.Archers, doesn't matter, but with gunpowder troops, make thin lines, so they'll fire faster.
5. Sorry, didn't get it..
6.Basically yes, but flanking and outnumbering still works.
7.Important, if troops get exhausted, they fight badly. Walk whenever possible. And let your enemy run..

As a tip: Always flank and use your cavalry effectively, those battles are quite easy when you get used to it. Pikes and other defensive troops to the front, flank with cavalry and faster, light troops.
And it's smart to put your units to high ground.

[Mikelus Trento]

1. Skirmish mode also allows the unit to be spread out more and less susceptible to ranged fire. Guard mode on ranged unit is sometimes helpful if you're careful, so they stay in place when an enemy comes near.

6. Spears kill cavalry, cavalry kills swords, ranged kills everything but die easiest.

[Cortoisis]

Welcome to the community!

In answer to your questions:

1. Skirmish is only for missile troops. That way, when an enemy unit gets too close, they will run to an area behind them. Guard, is what you put your units in if you want to guard an area (of course). I'm not really sure of its exact use, but basically, your units will stand their ground, and fight off any enemy units, but will not pursue routing enemies.

2. I'm not sure...

3. Just order your archers to fire at flanking enemies, and they will turn and shoot automatically.

4. With Arquebusiers and Musketeers, the longer the line, the better. With archers and crossbowmen, it doesn't really matter.

5. I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. If you don't want your cavalry decimated, try charging at the flanks, and not from the front. That is especially true if you're attacking spearmen.

6. Yes. If you use common sense, you'll be able to discern when it is wise to attack with your unit, and when it is unwise.

7. Fatigue is very important. If you run your units (especially infantry) lengthy distances, they will get very tired, and will be less effective in battle. Some units get tired faster than others, so be sure to monitor them.

Have fun! I hope someone more experienced than me will be able to answer your questions in a more thorough manner.

BTW, the goal in Pavia is to rout the cannon crews. The camera might be a bit different from othere RTS games. Go to the gameplay menu at the main menu, or during a battle, and you'll see the camera options.

[Soulghast]

What do you mean on the 5th question?

[Mikelus Trento]

5. In other words, don't start your cavalry charge from a long distance away, or they will be tired by the time they get to their target. Walk them to about 50 yards or so, then double click on the target to make them charge from that short distance. And NEVER charge at the front of a spear formation.

[Darkragnar]

Well, I never played any TW game before, but I thought wth... I played dozens of RTS games, it cant be THAT difficult. Well, my pride got several deep bruises in trying out the demo and loosing all those battles time and again. (I use the 2nd demo btw, I heard it was more difficult?)

Anyway, I see I am not well prepared, so maybe you tactical experts can give me your advise about the knots and bolts of this game. If you are not sure what you are doing wrong, its difficult to ask the right questions, but I do have a few.

1. What does Skirmish and Guard mean, and what exactly does it do?

As already Explained Skirmish Mode makes your archers run a short distance away from the enemy and when there is considerable distance between them , thell turn around and fire at the chaseing unit and when the chaseing unit gets too close to the archers they turn tail again and repeat the cycle.

Guard Mode Makes all the People in your unit stick to a formation.
That is when a unit of Pikeman are standing in Line (with Guard Mode on) and are charged the little men wont break the line and start looking for other men to fight in the attacking Enemy Unit, Instead the'll stand in the Line and fight, that is the people in front will fight and when they die the people in the back will take their place and fight till your unit or the enemy are dead , if the enemy unit routs and start's fleeing your unit on guard mode wont chase after them either.
The Guard mode is excelent if your want you unit to last longer in a fight , since less men actually die when in guard mode hence the total unit can fight longer .
Tip: IF you want them to really stand their ground and tie up the enemy then, stretch you men out in a Square or rectangle with deep lines of more than 6 Men deep and put them on guard mode. That way there will be more people in the back waiting to fight hence it will take longer for the enemy unit to finish them off.

3. When I am attacked from flank or behind, do I have to turn the Archers (or whatever ranged unit) into that direction manually, or can I simply target the new unit and they shoot the other way? (Like the rear attackers in Agincourt)

No you don't, Just Target the New Unit and they will start Shooting it after a brief .5-1sec delay.

4. Is there any gain if I place ranged fighters in a long line, or do they do the same damage if cramped in many lines behind each other?

Not really, if you put stretch you men in a long line more of them will fire at the maximum range of the unit, but if they get engaged in a melee fight then theyll rout and run away the qicker , the General Thumb rule is the Deeper the Unit the More time it will stand and fight.

5. Some say the just make a short charge with cavalry. How exactly does that work? Often I find my cavalry often heavily decimated all too soon.

Its pretty much common sense , if you make your cavalry run 1 Km their Horses will get tired, and if you make them charge too late they wont have any momentum to punch through. If you find your Cav Decimated quickly then you must be charging the enemy head on or charging without support, basically if you charge Spearmen head on then its better to order them to Jump on their Swords and end their Stupid Lives, What you want to be doing is attacking an enemy from the Back preferably or the sides , and only in the most dire situations do you want to charge from the front and only when you have a local numerical superiority on that unit.

6. Is there a paper-rock-scissors system, where one unit type always is superior/inferior to another as in many other strategy games (like the typical, never use riders against pikeman)?

Ya , Swordsmen Kill Spear men , Spear Men Kill Cav , Cav Kills Archers and Swordsmen to an extent, archers kill's anything which dosnt have a shield in their hand including Cav and Horse Archers.

7. I usually use the run not the walk, because otherwise I feel the enemy will flank or rear attack my army. I never played with a game that has some fatigue, how important is fatigue really?

Not really sensible , only make your men run when the enemy is close , what your doing is right denying the enenmy your flank and rear but you have to only do that when the enemy is close otherwise you'll end up with very tired men.
And Tired men cant fight ****, if the battle difficulty is very hard then a unit of Exhausted Knights can be destroyed by a unit vastly inferior unit say like men at arms or Fresh spearmen.

[Dave of the West]

I'll give your questions a go

1. Skirmish, as has been stated causes archers to run if an enemy gets too close. They're pretty fast, so rarely get caught, so it's often a good thing to have on, but if you place your archers too close behind your main line, they may run when the enemy reaches your infantry, so watch out. Guard mode is useful for creating a defensive line. They stop your units chasing routed enemies. It's extremely useful, as nothing is more annoying than having your army in seven pieces because they ran after a beaten foe while you weren't looking.

2. In the main campaign they can be ransomed for cash(most likely). Of course, you could just butcher them.

3. Archers don't need turning manually, but melee units most certainly do.

4. Deeper ranks is really a defensive stance, great against a charge.

5. Cavalry are great when they charge, but rubbish in drawn out combat. The best tactic is to charge, withdraw them from combat, and then charge again. Repeat untill done.

6. Sort of, but it's more practical, and dare I say, realistic, than most RTS games. Obviously pikemen do better against cavalry, but a cavalry unit can still wipe them out if they attack the flanks or rear. Certain units do better if they are used correctly. Archers can be deadly, but not if you charge them at swordsmen. You see?

7. Fatigue can be vital, depending. If a fresh unit of infantry meets an exhausted unit of the same type on fair grounds then the fresh unit will win every time. The more tired a unit is, the quicker it'll loose men and the faster it'll rout. This doesn't make tired units useless, they can still hold while you flank.


As for help, practice will work wonders. It's all about understanding the timing really, that and knowing what units do when and where. It'll come.



As to Pavia, one goal. Kill the French. Kill them Dead.

Go to settings and change the camera if you want. I find "RTS Camera" much better than "TW Camera" but for some bizzare reason you can't zoom in as close.

[elikal]

*bows* Thanks a lot to all for the good advise, I put it all in trial this evening. ^^

Hopefully in the campaign I can slowly learn the advatages of each type step by step.

Oh btw, will the final version be English only? I would prefer a German version. I play RPGs or
adventures in English any time, but in complex strategy I'd prefer my own language if possible.
The offical site wasnt quite clear about this.

[Spart]

I'm sure there will be a german version. Don't they have german versions for almost every game? =)

[sporkyness]

all languages the other totalwar games were released in will also be available for M2

[Goatsie]

TW isn't like other RTS games were you can just throw your men at the enemy and hope for the best, keep this in mind and try to use strategy like a real commander with your troops and you'll do fine. In the actual game when you first start your first targets will most likely be rebels and even if its another faction in the early game they won't have units that are too powerful so you should get the hang of it

[elikal]

I'm sure there will be a german version. Don't they have german versions for almost every game? =)

Heh yeah there is, I hear Germany (+Swiss & Austria) is one of the most profitable market outside Anlgo-American. USUALLY I prefer the original English, as in movies also. I want to hear/read it as the makers made it, so to speak, but in complicated games I prefer a translation. No reason to die all the time because I didnt read the warning of my General fast enough, hehe. ^^

[Mccray]

#5 Also I have great results setting my cav to charge to a point beyond the target so they basically ram straight through. Then I turn them around and repeat the process or just charge them right at the units who are usually still trying to regroup. This way they get road kills but dont get locked down in mele.

CAV-----------X(enemy infantry)-------->waypoint without stopping

Do not try this through spearmen though unless from the side or rear or if they are marching.

[Korinthos Hoplites]

#5 Also I have great results setting my cav to charge to a point beyond the target so they basically ram straight through. Then I turn them around and repeat the process or just charge them right at the target who is still trying to regroup. This way they get road kills but dont get locked down in mele.

Do not try this through spearmen though unless from the side or rear or if they are marching.

That's a good chariot tactic but it's not good for cavalry because their charge is directed to the target so they only really damage that target.

[carl-the-conqueror]

1. What does Skirmish and Guard mean, and what exactly does it do?

guard keeps themm from chasing an enemy, skirmish means run away from close combat

2. What are the prisoners for?

thats to do with the campaign

3. When I am attacked from flank or behind, do I have to turn the Archers (or whatever ranged unit) into that direction manually, or can I simply target the new unit and they shoot the other way? (Like the rear attackers in Agincourt)

not usually

4. Is there any gain if I place ranged fighters in a long line, or do they do the same damage if cramped in many lines behind each other?

well when in a long line, less freindly fire & longer range of fire

5. Some say the just make a short charge with cavalry. How exactly does that work? Often I find my cavalry often heavily decimated all too soon.

charge and run from anemy, repeat untill done

6. Is there a paper-rock-scissors system, where one unit type always is superior/inferior to another as in many other strategy games (like the typical, never use riders against pikeman)?

yes, pikemen beat cavlry , who beat swordsmen who beat pikemen (to some degree), but flanking, ranged units and special abilities beats that

7. I usually use the run not the walk, because otherwise I feel the enemy will flank or rear attack my army. I never played with a game that has some fatigue, how important is fatigue really?

quite important, but only when the units are very tired or more in my cases, they are more likely to rout, and i dont think they run as fast, and they fight poorly,so yes.


hope i helped

[Korinthos Hoplites]

1. What does Skirmish and Guard mean, and what exactly does it do?

Skirmish: ranged infantry/cavalry units run back when an enemy unit is aproaching them, this is very useful when you have low control of your army, either by lack of experience or by having a large force. I generally keep it off to have a better control, example: when enemy cavalry is approaching I push them back manually or they'll get caught because the 'skirmish' distance is not enough when running from cavalry. If you're using ranged cavalry keep it on all the time as they are fast enough to run.

Guard: men will try to keep their formation instead of straying into a messed up fight and won't chase fleeing enemies when they rout. I keep it off unless when about to be charged by cavalry. This option should be rarely turned on in the case of swordsmen because they fight better in messed up fights.

2. What are the prisoners for?

During the campaign, when you end a game, you'll have to choose the fate of those prisoners, either kill, ransom or release them.

3. When I am attacked from flank or behind, do I have to turn the Archers (or whatever ranged unit) into that direction manually, or can I simply target the new unit and they shoot the other way? (Like the rear attackers in Agincourt)

When your archers are attacked by the flank the best you have to do is to take them the hell out of there. Even if they manage to shoot one volley they'll soon get caught and cut to pieces. Believe me, pull them back.

4. Is there any gain if I place ranged fighters in a long line, or do they do the same damage if cramped in many lines behind each other?

Yes, in RTW a ranged unit would only start shooting when ALL soldiers in the unit had the enemy in range, so if you place them in a deep formation they'll only shoot when the enemy is near, too near in some cases. Place them in a 3-4 ranks formation for ideal balance between long range and an *almost* effective defence if you're caught by 'sneaky' enemies in melee.

5. Some say the just make a short charge with cavalry. How exactly does that work? Often I find my cavalry often heavily decimated all too soon.

Units only start charging at a set distance, you probably mean the pre-charge movement. If you want a charge for yesterday, then the best choice is to run them to the spot, otherwise take things softly. Why to tire your men and ruin your well thought formation? If you want a long lasting cavalry, charge from the flank/rear.

6. Is there a paper-rock-scissors system, where one unit type always is superior/inferior to another as in many other strategy games (like the typical, never use riders against pikeman)?

It depends a lot on the quality of the troops and good manuevering. A charge from the rear by cavalry when the enemy is already fighting in the front is pure and simply the end of the fight, spearmen can easily beat cavalry in a fair match. Pikemen (spearmen in formation carrying long spears) are very strong in the front but are easy pray in flank/rear fight. Swordsmen/axemen are good all round soldiers and are usually the best infantry in the army, they are good against spearmen and devastating against archers (only cavalry is best), but somewhat weak when charged by cavalry, they are a must-have in any long fight.
Archers, use them against men without shields and, if possible, without armour.
Horse archers RULE the battlefield and can only be taken down by archers or in a melee.

7. I usually use the run not the walk, because otherwise I feel the enemy will flank or rear attack my army. I never played with a game that has some fatigue, how important is fatigue really?

Fatigue influences fighting ability, speed and morale, that's it. During a battle it is one of the most important factors.