Winning the war in Afghanistan

[Nakura]

I'm not going to delve too deep into this, but if we seriously want to win the war in Afghanistan, then I have a few ideas on how we might be able to do so. Below is a general outline of a few thoughts I have on it, though I won't expand too much on it in this message.

Our Objective
Ensure Afghanistan remains a stable NATO-aligned state. I believe the primary means to obtain this objective is by winning the hearts and minds of the Afghan people through social, political and economic reforms. With that being said, military operations against the Taliban also play an important role in securing Afghanistan as a stable nation.


How to achieve?
Socio-Economic Reform
1. Vastly improve the primary and secondary education system in Afghanistan. This includes improving the conditions the schools are in, better vetting of Afghan and foreign teachers (to ensure competence and ideological purity) and the electrification of schools (see step 3).

2. Creation of a highly monopolistic Afghan media network that promotes Allied values and helps educate the population through genuine educational programs. Other media outlets will be allowed (freedom of the press), but our NATO-backed media network will have more funding and resources than our competitors and will be available for free to all Afghan citizens.

3. Work towards creating a viable, independent energy infrastructure in Afghanistan. This including bringing electricity to villages and reducing Afghanistan's dependence on foreign energy sources. These projects should only be undergone if they are viable following eventual NATO-ISAF withdrawal.

4. Improve Afghanistan's higher education system by providing more opportunities for the poor to enter college and apprenticeship programs, especially the rural poor who are often stuck in villages their whole lives with little opportunity to get out. We would also focus heavily on teaching, medical and infrastructure degrees. Infrastructure degrees and apprenticeships in particular are important as we teach Afghan nationals to build, maintain and run power plants, bridges, dams, etc.

5. Promote free market entrepreneurship through the creation of a program (run by the Afghan government?) to help Afghan nationals improve their communities through free enterprise and community action.

6. We should work with moderate mosques and religious leaders in Afghanistan towards promoting secularism and moderation. If Islamic leaders in Afghanistan condemn the Taliban and extremism, then it will show that this isn't a "war on Islam," it's a war fought by Muslims and non-Muslims alike against those who oppose values that all humans, both Muslims and non-Muslims alike, share.

7. Bringing the full force of the Western civilian populations to bear on Afghan poverty. Civilians from all over the free world should work together to improve the lives of the Afghan people, just winning over their hearts and minds, as well as teaching them to become self-sufficient. We won't just throw handouts at them, we will teach them important skills (apprenticeships) and hands-on training to improve themselves. This can't and shouldn't be a strictly government-military operation, we need to have the American people (and the people of other friendly states) working towards this cause as well.



Political Reform & Eliminating Corruption
1. Work with the Afghan government on creating a program to eliminate widespread political corruption within the country.

2. Have United States agencies directly oversee financial aid to Afghanistan to ensure that aid goes towards their intended projects and not 'third party' groups or even the Taliban.

3. Wane Afghanistan off of Pakistan and ISI dependence. Pakistan and the ISI are NOT our allies and they certainly aren't interested in the Coalition's objectives in Afghanistan. Afghanistan needs to become less economically dependent on Pakistan, as well as relying less on ISI intelligence/influence. This can be accomplished in part by strengthening the Afghan intelligence services (see #4 of the section below).

4. (Optional) Build two political parties in Afghanistan that are both completely committed to fighting the Taliban and protecting the NATO-Afghan relationship. These two parties will act as opposing parties and will receive heavy Western funding and will work on their own to politically indoctrinate the population into their moderate camps. Other political parties would be allowed (democracy!), but they would lack the massive funding that these two parties would have.

This allows Afghanistan to turn into a vibrant democratic state where the people can exercise all of their democratic rights without bringing about any meaningful change. The two moderate parties can debate all they want about social and economic policies, but as long as secularism and ties with NATO are maintained, we shouldn't be too concerned. We may also want to consider vetting all politicians who run under the banners of these parties, but we also want to make sure that the process remains at least somewhat open, to promote democratic development.



Strengthening the Afghan Armed Forces
1. Curb desertion rates by providing AAF forces with political indoctrination and placing more emphasis on military discipline.

2. Expand the role of Allied military advisers in Afghanistan and begin training AAF officers to become advisers of their own military.

3. Drastically increase both the quality and length of AAF training to ensure a more competent military.

4. Drastically improve Afghanistan's intelligence apparatus and help them become more competent in locating and neutralizing insurgents. Also improve intelligence sharing between Afghanistan, NATO-ISAF, Israeli and regional intelligence organizations.

5. Two Choices:
Universal military conscription to ensure all citizens (male and female) have a common national background and culture, as well as promoting a common political doctrine through military indoctrination. If women were conscripted, it could help bridge the negative image that some groups in Afghan society hold of women.

I should note that a potential problem with conscripting women is that it could push some Islamist sympathizers (but not full-borne Taliban fighters) into joining the Taliban. It is also possible that some Taliban fighters would be reluctant to surrender to female AAF soldiers, as they view women as inferior/slaves, thus potentially harming the Afghan intelligence apparatus.

OR

Move towards a leaner, volunteer mililtary force and focusing on a high level of professionalism and competency. I should note that this may result in the Afghan military being too small (albeit competent) to function effectively against the Taliban and other emerging threats.



NATO-ISAF Military Operations
1. NATO-ISAF forces should work more closely with AAF forces to improve relations between our two forces, as well as to better train the AAF.

2. There should be increased oversight of drone strikes in Afghanistan. While drone strikes where the risk to civilian casualties is extremely low or non-existent should continue, we need to be careful when eliminating targets in urban areas with high-yield explosives, as this can hurt our objective of winning the hearts and minds of the Afghan people. We switch the focus on improving the ability of Afghan special forces to carry out surgical strikes on Taliban targets (in cases where drone strikes may prove too costly).

3. Begin requiring all (or at least most) future troops stationed in Afghanistan to speak Pashto and/or Dari as part of their extensive training. This will ensure better cooperation between NATO-ISAF and AAF forces, as well as help NATO-ISAF soldiers better interact with and understand the native population (and vice-versa).


So, what are your thoughts on my proposals?

[hellheaven1987]

...

You are from somewhere of New World right?

[Caligula's_Horse]

Bit late for that, isn't it?
My understanding is that NATO is currently in the process of pulling out of Afghanistan as soon as possible, whether the Afghans are ready or not.

[Nicov55]

OMG. That just looks like an extract from some report by the "project for a new american century" foundation.
For it to have the slightest chance of success, you'd need in Afghanistan at least a significant base of people you could reason with.
This is clearly not the case, fanaticism and obscurantism are their favourite philosophers.

i suggest another tactic i could sum up as follows: "these people are f...ing nuts, let's get the f... out of here".

[Nevins]

1. Curb desertion rates by providing AAF forces with political indoctrination and placing more emphasis on military discipline.

2. Expand the role of Allied military advisers in Afghanistan and begin training AAF officers to become advisers of their own military.

3. Drastically increase both the quality and length of AAF training to ensure a more competent military.

4. Drastically improve Afghanistan's intelligence apparatus and help them become more competent in locating and neutralizing insurgents. Also improve intelligence sharing between Afghanistan, NATO-ISAF, Israeli and regional intelligence organizations.

You seriously think that these were not things that were being focused on from day one? When you have a faulty foundation its pretty tough to build much of anything from it.

[Admiral Piett]

I don't care about 'winning' in Afghanistan. The Afghan people have already lost because they are too divided against one another ethnically, too dependent on the drug trade without any realistic other industries to make money in, their army costs more than they make in revenues, and they have little will to continue the fighting. Without taking the fight into tribal Pakistan and most especially Quetta where Omar is headquartered, then it's just a waiting game he's playing until we leave. I'm not sure if the entire country will fall to the Taliban, but they will take back southern and eastern parts of the country where they are still very active.

[Mayer]

My understanding is that NATO is currently in the process of pulling out of Afghanistan as soon as possible, whether the Afghans are ready or not.

And soon another province to the Caliphate/Islamic State
and more american equipment too, yep the jihadists should really thank Obama for everything they owe to him

[hellheaven1987]

yep the jihadists should really thank Obama for everything they owe to him

Not going to return those Humvee regardless what Michelle said though.

[Basil II the B.S]

OP,there's one massive flaw in your plan: none of that is going to work when the local Imam paid by your ally Saudi Arabia chants ''Death to America'' in every sermon.
You can't buy Islam.

Gg though.

[Mayer]

You don't return gifts, that's ungrateful.

[Napoleonic Bonapartism]

You never win in Afghanistan - you merely pass it on to the next generation. As the British know all too well.
In all seriousness I think the seeds of a better Afghanistan have been planted - when people say; we made it worse, I do think would they rather live under the modern government system (whatever it's flaws) or under the Taliban? As for women; it would even be preferable to live under the Soviets (and the PDPA). As long as the New Government can hold out once the allies pull out - and get some modernisation going - then there is hope for the future.

[Mayer]

The death cult will sure to be able to remove the tiny bits of modernisation injected by the americans, it already happend with the soviet influence when the Taliban destroyed Najibullah's government. My advice: afghan women should get used to wearing the burqua and staying at home.

[Napoleonic Bonapartism]

The death cult will sure to be able to remove the tiny bits of modernisation injected by the americans, it already happend with the soviet influence when the Taliban destroyed Najibullah's government. My advice: afghan women should get used to wearing the burqua and staying at home.

That's why we must hope the Government can hold out, and push back - it needs an industrial base and needs to mechanise; though sadly this may drive many into the Taliban's waiting arms.

[Papay]

The best scenario for Afghanistan right now is a Somalia scenario. The government with the help of foreign troops to control the cities and the important highways but Taliban controlling everything else

[Captain Jin]

It's not really a winnable situation for the west unless they stay there forever. Bottom line is we have given the Afghans a chance. More than likely it's one they will not capitalize on. It's the same for Iraq. You apply these reasonable ideas to modern, civilized countries like Germany or Japan after WWII and they realize the jig is up, they've lost and it's time to move on and change the way things are-- develop and become a competitor in another sphere of influence and so forth... but in these countries you don't get that. The institutions necessary for the development of democracy do not exist, the infrastructure does not exist, the will of the people regarding democracy, no matter how obvious it may seem, is quickly overcome by sectarian violence.

And yes these countries are not civilized. When you kill a person because they are from a different sect of religion than you, or they don't share the same ethnicity as you then you are uncivilized. I don't care how politically incorrect that is. And I'd be fine with allowing them to wallow in their shallow holes, and let them poke berries up their noses while they ruminate over the finer details of whether leadership after Muhammed's death should have gone to Abu Bakr or Ali Bin Abu Talib. I mean it's been 1500 god damn years. Get over it. Move on. Or continue to wallow in a self-inflicted abyss of violence and misery. I for one am saddened that my friends and brothers died trying to help a country whose people cared more about killing one another over some obscure part of their religious history rather than improving their own lot in life. I know it's not obscure to them, but wake the up. Instead they just continue to blame the West and America for all their problems.

Afghanistan and Iraq were both given every opportunity to succeed and advanced but religious fundamentalism will continue to hold them back.

I have even less respect for Afghans than I do for Iraqis. At least the majority of Iraqis I met were proud to be Iraqi. They had some notion of nationalism, even if they lacked the willpower to get off their asses and see change come about without the violence. But in Afghanistan? The Pashtuns? I've never met a more backward, manipulative lot of people in my entire life. It makes me sad for the Afghans that want to see real change when so many Pashtuns still cling to this notion that they are the rightful rulers of Afghanistan and so will turn to violent means to maintain this imaginary position.

Both countries are holes. Afghanistan moreso. But it's for all the people that just want to get on with their lives. That's ruined by all the mouth breathing retards with an AK47 and some idiotic notion about what is wrong or right in the eyes of their religion. Unsurprisingly most of them have never even read the ing Koran because they are illiterate as . Don't ever question the religiosity of an Afghan, even if you see him doing all kinds of that is haram. He owns a Koran. He has never read it because he doesn't know how to read. And he will do things that a good Muslim shouldn't, but don't you dare question him because then he will try to kill you thanks to his stupid, archaic and medieval code of honor. I'm talking about Pashtuns here, who are the worst group of people on the face of the Earth. At least in terms of Afghanistan moving forward. There are some reformers, but far too many stuck in their violent, ultra--ultra--ultra conservative ways. If I had a dollar for every time I saw some violent act of retardation thanks to these archaic ideas I'd at least have a tenner. Whatever I'm drunk. Both those places can in burn except no they become havens for bags that want to attack the west for all their problems so we have to get involved.

[hellheaven1987]

You apply these reasonable ideas to modern, civilized countries like Germany

Lets be honest even Germany the civilized country needed two chances to get it right.

[mongrel]

It's not really a winnable situation for the west unless they stay there forever. Bottom line is we have given the Afghans a chance. More than likely it's one they will not capitalize on. It's the same for Iraq. You apply these reasonable ideas to modern, civilized countries like Germany or Japan after WWII and they realize the jig is up, they've lost and it's time to move on and change the way things are-- develop and become a competitor in another sphere of influence and so forth... but in these countries you don't get that. The institutions necessary for the development of democracy do not exist, the infrastructure does not exist, the will of the people regarding democracy, no matter how obvious it may seem, is quickly overcome by sectarian violence.

And yes these countries are not civilized. When you kill a person because they are from a different sect of religion than you, or they don't share the same ethnicity as you then you are uncivilized. I don't care how politically incorrect that is. And I'd be fine with allowing them to wallow in their shallow holes, and let them poke berries up their noses while they ruminate over the finer details of whether leadership after Muhammed's death should have gone to Abu Bakr or Ali Bin Abu Talib. I mean it's been 1500 god damn years. Get over it. Move on. Or continue to wallow in a self-inflicted abyss of violence and misery. I for one am saddened that my friends and brothers died trying to help a country whose people cared more about killing one another over some obscure part of their religious history rather than improving their own lot in life. I know it's not obscure to them, but wake the up. Instead they just continue to blame the West and America for all their problems.

Afghanistan and Iraq were both given every opportunity to succeed and advanced but religious fundamentalism will continue to hold them back.

I have even less respect for Afghans than I do for Iraqis. At least the majority of Iraqis I met were proud to be Iraqi. They had some notion of nationalism, even if they lacked the willpower to get off their asses and see change come about without the violence. But in Afghanistan? The Pashtuns? I've never met a more backward, manipulative lot of people in my entire life. It makes me sad for the Afghans that want to see real change when so many Pashtuns still cling to this notion that they are the rightful rulers of Afghanistan and so will turn to violent means to maintain this imaginary position.

Both countries are holes. Afghanistan moreso. But it's for all the people that just want to get on with their lives. That's ruined by all the mouth breathing retards with an AK47 and some idiotic notion about what is wrong or right in the eyes of their religion. Unsurprisingly most of them have never even read the ing Koran because they are illiterate as . Don't ever question the religiosity of an Afghan, even if you see him doing all kinds of that is haram. He owns a Koran. He has never read it because he doesn't know how to read. And he will do things that a good Muslim shouldn't, but don't you dare question him because then he will try to kill you thanks to his stupid, archaic and medieval code of honor. I'm talking about Pashtuns here, who are the worst group of people on the face of the Earth. At least in terms of Afghanistan moving forward. There are some reformers, but far too many stuck in their violent, ultra--ultra--ultra conservative ways. If I had a dollar for every time I saw some violent act of retardation thanks to these archaic ideas I'd at least have a tenner. Whatever I'm drunk. Both those places can in burn except no they become havens for bags that want to attack the west for all their problems so we have to get involved.

This sums up why NATO's reputation in these regions are tarnished. Are you seriously calling Nazi Germany civilized? Are you suggesting that not a single black man or Jew or Native American was harmed by a white American before they obtained civil rights? THe US and UK military said nothing as they were dragged into a political folly that was the Iraq War. Why not save some of the bile for the people who devised these doomed campaigns in the first place?

[Captain Jin]

This sums up why NATO's reputation in these regions are tarnished. Are you seriously calling Nazi Germany civilized? Are you suggesting that not a single black man or Jew or Native American was harmed by a white American before they obtained civil rights?

No it doesn't sum up anything about why NATO's reputation is tarnished. Don't pretend like you have any idea. Don't pretend like you have been to the country or know how me or my peers operated beside our Afghan counterparts, or the lengths we went to, or the danger we put ourselves in on their behalf. You can sit at your desk and pretend like you have an idea, but that's not really going to convince someone that's actually been there. You think I was in their face telling them this? No. I was a professional. I operated as such.

I figured you'd come along and not even understand wtf I was saying. No the Nazi regime was not civilized. But German people were. When the war was over and although perceptions didn't change overnight the Germans took to rebuilding their country right away. You didn't see continued violence taking place between German Catholics and German Protestants. They cultivated the necessary institutions to forge a successful future for their country to recover after a devastating war. Maybe they didn't all take responsibility for the regime that caused that, but over time perceptions changed as Germans began to confront the past more readily. Beyond that you need only look at what the country is today to see it's a very successful democracy. Also wtf are you talking about regarding Native Americans, Jews and black men? Good lord. Why do you try to make inane equations and try to draw conclusions that have absolutely all with what I was talking about? Oh that's right. You probably don't have an argument so you go completely off topic.

[mongrel]

The German people stood by whilst Jewish property was confiscated and their owners sent to death camps. Civilised? Yeah right. Of course we didn't see continued violence. The population was off their heads on crystal meth during the war. Germany was almost wiped off the map by the Allies. Germany was so well beaten, they had no effective army left. And we didn't have a few divisions of under-equipped men , Germany was occupied by several of the best equipped armies the world had ever seen. Half of Germany was under a brutal communist regime.Yes my memory goes back to before 1990. As for Japan, I think the application of nukes proved sufficient encouragement. I recall that there was a time , within my lifetime when some minorities had no rights in America. A fact you cannot dodge. Or is your point that peoples beaten into submission are inherently civilised, whereas those who put up a fight against ourselves and our allies are not?

I would your rant is not untypical of someone experiencing the sharp end of a colonial conflict. The UK was used to such, that is partly why in the end it gave up running other people's countries, because it instills practices that are incompatable with modern democracy. Kidnap torture and imprisonment without trial were amongst such practice. When is Obama going to get rid of Gitmo by the way?

Like a fair number of reasonable people I get the intial Afghan invasion, but I can't see why so much taxpayer's money was poured into either country , more in fact , allowing for inflation than was used to rebuild Europe. What fecking waste of treasure. Words cannot describe the damage the Iraq campaign has wrought not just to Iraq but the entire region.

[mongrel]

oops