New Temples?

[HIC SVNT LEONES]

Do you think we might be getting new temples, especially in the upcoming overhaul, for certain factions, like the Berbers, Arabs, and Armenians?

It's just weird having them with the Zoroastrian/Iranian culture groups. I know the Armenians were influenced by those things, but also the greeks, and carried their own pantheon.

Anyway, just wondering!

[qlum]

From what I know this stuff is baked into the game quite deep so sadly I would not expect major changes there.

[Shaggy_711]

From what I know this stuff is baked into the game quite deep so sadly I would not expect major changes there.

Negative, buildings can be changed. If you want a quick and dirty fix you could just go into the localization files and change the names/description to your choosing.

[Dresden]

I can look into customizing the Arabian and African temples. Right now they use the eastern setup but give the proper culture (unlike in vanilla, where they just give eastern culture still...yeah)

I don't know much about Armenian religion.

[HIC SVNT LEONES]

I know the Arabs and Armenians have distinct pre-islamic pagan things, and certain Arab tribes were actually judaized. So that could be interesting.

Berbers.. are complicated, they have a relationship with the Egyptian religions (which isn't that big a stretch and it could go either way, to and from, as the Libyans were neighbors of Egypt). They have distinct deities but they're sorta mysterious or associated with their 'overlords' in certain areas, like Berber-Phoenecian, Berber-Greek, Berber-Roman, Berber-Egyptian relationships.

The Armenian gods and beliefs are actually listed on the wiki in an okay fashion. Not an expert on the material, but its a nice start.

Armenia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_mythology

Nabatae
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabataeans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dushara
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-%E2%80%98Uzz%C3%A1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaabou
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-l%C4%81t

Saba
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheba
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabaeans

General Arabian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabian_mythology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Islamic_Arabia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Semitic_religion

Berbers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Semitic_religion (Canaan/Phoenician Deities)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berber_mythology

[HIC SVNT LEONES]

Did some more research to give you a hand here.

Sabean Deities:
http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12969-sabeans -

According to this and combined with some of the wiki info on southern arabian culture/deities

The big players of the Sabean Kingdom in terms of gods were:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almaqah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attar_(god)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haubas

There are some more of those and minor gods, but those are the first three mentioned and if I remember correctly those are the same deities as brought up by EB back in the day. Haubas doesn't have much about them though.

I'll keep at it though.

[Dresden]

Did some more research to give you a hand here.

Sabean Deities:
http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12969-sabeans -

According to this and combined with some of the wiki info on southern arabian culture/deities

The big players of the Sabean Kingdom in terms of gods were:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almaqah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attar_(god)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haubas

There are some more of those and minor gods, but those are the first three mentioned and if I remember correctly those are the same deities as brought up by EB back in the day. Haubas doesn't have much about them though.

I'll keep at it though.

Thanks for the research, I have used it to do custom Arabian/African temples for 1.0. I will also work on Armenia as well since they are fairly distinct from their neighbors in that regard.

[SenseiJT92]

Yeah... I think the temple tree needs to be greatly expanded for all factions - perhaps include more Gods & Godesses for the Latin/Greek factions? For example:

Diana - the Goddess of the Moon - Not sure
Fortuna - the Goddess of Luck - Increase in more favourable seasons? (not sure whether this is possible)
Janus - the God of Gates and doors - Increase in garrison army stats?
Jupiter - the King of the Gods and God of Lightning and the Sky - Already in game
Juno - his wife, Queen of the Gods and Goddess of Marriage - Not sure
Mars - the God of War - Already in game
Bellona- the Goddess of War - Same as above, perhaps could offer alternative stat boosts
Mercury - the God of Thieves, Commerce and Travelers. Also the Messenger of Gods - Already in game
Neptune - the God of the Sea - Already in game
Pluto - God of death, and the riches under the Earth - Not sure
Proserpina, his wife, goddess of the underworld - Not sure
Saturn, Titan of time - Not sure
Ceres, his daughter, goddess of farming and the Earth - Food bonus, also agricultural bonuses
Venus, Goddess of Love and Beauty - Not sure
Vulcan, her husband - the God of Fire and Blacksmiths. Vulcan was seen as a blacksmith - Already in game
Cupid, their son - the God of Love. - Slight public order and huge growth bonus?
Minerva, virgin goddess of Wisdom, Handicrafts, - Already in game
Bacchus, god of wine, parties/festivals, madness, and merriment - Huge public order and minor growth bonus?
Vesta, virgin goddess of home and hearth - Not sure

[Dresden]

Thanks, I will use this research when doing some new temples for these factions. One issue is that currently the africans and arabians share the same ones. However, I could at least make generic temples for them and then more customized ones for the playable factions. Perhaps have both african and arabian use the custom arabian temples, but make some new ones for the Masaesyli.

About adding more to the existing temples, I am not sure that is in the plans. It would make the building screen a mess (I think there might be a limit there also). But, perhaps one day when the mod itself is mostly fleshed out.

[Philadelphos]

Here is a list with available temples in my mod for RTW:

I apologize for the messy style, but this comes from my personal notes.

romans_julii / The Roman Republic
Jupiter, Juno, Mars, Minerva (4 ok), Saturn
Bellona, Janus, Ceres, Vesta, Vulcan, Bacchus, Lares/Juno_Moneta, Vertumnus/Cybele, Pollux, Diana, jus, law, Quirinus, Venus, Neptune, Concordia, Mercury, Apollo, vio, ho2, vic, ~~ Mithras, Isis 4+17+2=23

romans_brutii / Epirus
Zeus, Hera, Hephaistos, Apollon (4 ok)
bat, Herakles, Demeter, Dione, Hephaistos, Dionysos, gov, hea, Medaurus, Artemis, jus, law, led, Aphrodite, Poseidon, one, Hermes, vik, ho2, vio, Nike, 4+10=14 ok (add Asklepios? Athena? Ares?)

romans_scipii / Hellenic Kingdoms
Zeus, Hera, Herakles, Aphrodite (4 ok)
Ares, baf, Demeter, Kybele, for, Dionysos, gov, hea, Pollux, Artemis, jus, law, led, Eros, Poseidon, one, Hermes, Apollon, ho2, vio, vic, (4+9=13) add Athena?!!!!

greek_cities / Greek Cities
Zeus, Hera, Athena, Hermes (4 ok)
bat, baf, Demeter, Hekate, Hephaistos, Dionysos, gov, Asklepios, hor, Artemis, jus, law, led, Aphrodite, Poseidon, one, Hestia/Helios, Apollon, ho2, vio, Nike, (4+11=15) add Ares?

macedon / Macedon
Zeus, Hera, Ares, Apollon
bat, Herakles/Athena, Demeter, Hekate, Hephaistos, Dionysos, gov, hea, hor, Artemis, jus, law, led, Aphrodite, Poseidon, one, Hermes, vik, ho2, vio, Nike, (4+12 add war?)

thrace / Illyria and Thrace
Sabazios, Cybele, Medaurus, - (3 ok)
bat, Armatus, Semele/Persephone/Demeter, fer, for, Orpheus/Dionysus, Reitia, Vidasus, hor, Thana, jus, law, Cotys, Anzotica, Bindus, one, tra, Apollo, ho2, Zibelthiurdos, vic, 13

seleucid / Seleucid Empire
Zeus, Artemis, Ares, Apollon (4 ok)
bat, baf, far, Atargatis, Hephaistos, Dionysos, gov, Asklepios (not Isis), hor, hun, jus, law, led, Astarte/Ishtar, Poseidon, one, Hermes, vik, Sabazios/Alexander, vio, Nike, (4+9=13)

pontus / Pontus
Zeus Stratios, Cybele, Poseidon, Apollon (4) yes! (ori was gov lov vio Zeus Aphrodite Ares), Dushara?
bat, Enyo/Ma, far, Men/Cybele, for, Dionysos, Serapis, hea, Pollux, Artemis, jus, law, led, Aphrodite, Pontus, one, Hermes, Mithras, Sabazios, Hercules, vic, 13 (add Mithras and Anaitis and Eros?)

armenia / Armenia
Armazd, Anahit, Vahagan, - (maybe Tsovinar), Dushara?
bat, baf, far, Cybele, Mihr, Dionysos, gov, hea, Tsovinar, hun, jus, law, led, Astghik, nav, Jehova (no), tra, Mithras, Sabazios, vio, vic, 3+7=10 add Tiur tra!!!!

parthia / parthia
Ahura Mazda - - - (only one),
bat, bor, far, fer, Spenta Manyu, fun, gov, hea, hor, hun, jus, Mithra, led, Anahita, nav, one, Zoroastra, vik, ho2, vio, vic, 1+4=5 ok

romans_senate / Independent Kingdoms
The Gods, Atargatis, Indra, Helios/Sol/Sun God (4 ok) Dushara (finance)
bat, Vishnu, far, Cybele, Shiva, Dionysos, Hadad/Zeus, hea, hor, hun, Buddha, law, led, Aphrodite, nav, Jehova, Zoroastra, Mithras, ho2, Hercules (Melqart), Poseidon, (4+9=13 ) added Arabian Idol/Obodas

egypt / Ptolemaic Egypt
Serapis, Isis, -, Osiris, (3 ok) Apollo
Sekhmet, baf, Khnum and Taweret, Hathor, Ptah, fun, Anubis/Hermanubis, Imhotep, hor, hun, Seth, Horus, Maat and Thoth, Mut, Triton, Aton/Apophis, Seshat, Amun, Sobek, Bastet, Astarte, (3+1+17+1=22) Ra

carthage / Carthage
Baal, Tanit, -, Melqart (3 ok)
bat, baf, far, fer, for, fun, gov, Eshmun, hor, Ifri, jus, law, Anath, Adonis, Yamm, one, tra, Amun, Moloch, ho2, Astarte, (3+8=11) (war god?)

numidia / Numidia
Mastiman, Tanit, Gurzil, -
bat, Antaeus, far, Tingis, for, fun, Varsutina, Isis, hor, Ifri, Baal, Dushara, Bonchar, lov, Triton, one, Melqart, Amun, vio, ho2, vic, 14 (add war/horse?)

spain
Endovelicus, Ataecina, Cariocecus, Belenus (4 ok)
Runesocesius, Toutatis, far, Nabia, for, fun, Sucellus, Borvo, Epona, Abnoba, Taranis, Trebaruna, led, Matrona-no, nav, one, Lugus, Durius, Cernunnos-no, Esus-no, Dercetius, 4+12=16 ok Artemis/Diana (Isis)

gauls
Toutatis, Epona, Esus, Belenus (orig is baf hor hun jus same 4 as spain) 4 ok
Cicolluis, baf, Habondia, Noreia, for, fun, Sucellus, Moritasgus, hor, Abnoba, Taranis, Nantosuelta, led, Matrona, Damona, one, Lugus, Rosmerta, Cernunnos-no, vio, Ogmios, 4+13=17

britons
Taranis, Andrasta, Camulus, Belenus (4 ok) (original is hea tra vic Brigantia, Britannia, Andrasta)
Smertrius/Lenus, Toutatis, Damara, Noreia, Latobius, Maponos, Britannia, Grannus, Epona, Nodens, jus, Brigantia, led, Matrona, nav, one, Lugus, Sirona, Cernunnos, Esus, vic, (4+16=20)

germans
Wodan, Frigg, Donar, Freyja, (as original 3 plus Frigg) ok
bat, baf, Nerthus, fer, Volund, fun, gov(Sif?), Grannus, hor, Uller, Tyr, law(Sif?), Loki, Matrona, Aegir, one, tra, vik, ho2, vio, vic, 4+8=12 ok (no Sif)

dacia (Getans and Goths)
Hebeleysis, Bendis, Zalmoxis, (Thor) like original (Thor only for Goths)
bat, baf, far, fer, for, fun, (Odin), Derzelas, hor, Donaris, jus, (Yngvi), (Teiws), Matrona, Tagisamad, one, tra, vik, Sabazios, vio, (Frea), (7+4 ok)

scythia
Papay, Api, Kolaksay, Tabiti (4 ok)
Targitay, baf, far, Argimpasa, for, fun, gov, Hoytosir, hor, Borysthenis, jus, law, led, lov, Tagimasad, one, tra, vik, ho2, vio, vic, 8 ok add Rada/Ma?

[TheOrangeProject]

www.jstor.org could be worth checking out.

Basically a "digital library of academic journals, books, and primary sources"

Using it regulary in my studies.
Many text can be read without registration, but if not, the registration is free.

[HIC SVNT LEONES]

Sweet, what sort of temples were decided on?

[Dresden]

Sweet, what sort of temples were decided on?

As of right now the Sabaeans have Almaqah, Attar and Haubas. The Armenians have Vahagn, Nane, Tir, Anahit, Aramazd and Hur (fire)

[HIC SVNT LEONES]

As of right now the Sabaeans have Almaqah, Attar and Haubas. The Armenians have Vahagn, Nane, Tir, Anahit, Aramazd and Hur (fire)

Rad!

What are the Berbers getting?

[Butan]

You could also check out what Europa Barbarorum II did in term of cultural background check, they seem to have done a very in-depth job and since they use the same historical era its easy to adapt in R2.

[Leggy]

Is there a limit on how many temple a faction can choose from?

[Dresden]

Is there a limit on how many temple a faction can choose from?

I am not sure, I haven't tested that. I do want to limit the number because I feel that it can be overwhelming if there are way too many. I am also working on making it so that even minor cities can build tier 4 temples (as it is in vanilla now and also in our Augustus campaign).

On a related note, we will also be adding new cultures in 1.0. I will release more information about that as we get closer to having a 1.0 preview. However, I can say it will add some complexity to the campaign map and also make cultures more important and varied.

[Philadelphos]

Is there a limit on how many temple a faction can choose from?

Sorry, this is Rome II, forget all I wrote!

[Maetharin]

Hey Dresden, concerning cultural conversion, i think it should work slower and over the city/village/whatever line of buildings,
people don´t convert to religions and cultures just because you tear down their shrines and build temples instead.

Maybe a temple of the native culture could provide PO bonuses, whilst slowing down cultural conversion,
and vice versa with your own temples?

With the suggestion i posted here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...g-Troops/page2
this could completely revamp how cultural conversion works! Especially with .Mitch.´s POPULOUS mod advancing at high speed!

The conqueror has to either stay with his troops, and consolidate the conquered region, or to rush forward and end the war, and thus risk rebellion!

Also, changing a barbarian village into a roman town, should take at least as much time as building one from scratch!
And it should cost more!

Best regards

[Dresden]

Right now they are sharing temples with the Sabaeans. The research I did actually points to the fact that many tribes at that time shared the Semitic religious roots.