Big change to the warhammer universe

[Javesh]

You guys seen this? Jebus...
"Hey uhh... Did anyone notice that THE END TIMES ARE HERE?

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_End_Times

Leoncoeur is dead, Finubar and Karl Franz are MIA, Gilles Le Breton is back to make Bretonnia whole and clean of Chaos, and NAGASH IS RESURRECTED. HOLY CRAP.

Also the Skaven have invented Phones, the iSqueak is sure to be a bestseller. Oh, and they're all united now, prepare your buttcheeks.

The Lizardmen have declared that has hit the fan and are leaving. Somewhere.

And did I mention that the hordes of Chaos are invading? Yeah, they're EVERYWHERE.

Oh, and Grimgor's rage meter is nearly full. Da biggest WAAAAAAGH! iz gonna pruuv who da biggest orc is.

Sigmar help us all."

[PoisonCourtesan]

Woah wait. So is this like a new version of Warhammer? An update to the story?

I read that Archaon changed route and is going to battle the undead. I also read that Sylvania and Tomb Kings have forged an uneasy alliance and Nagash is planning to consume the Chaos Gods.

[Vardeus]

The 2nd book is coming out in a few days, i've already preordered it and checked some threads full of lore spoilers as i was dying to know more.

Its title is...the fall of Altdorf. Don't let the title worry you too much. Many things we've loved for more than a decade are going to change!

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

End Times 2 coming out, so far spoilers are saying even more big name deaths. Named heroes are dropping like flies, new and old. Nobody is safe. Every army is on the march. And we're not even halfway through it, since the rumors say it'll be a 4-5 part thing leading into 9th edition.

[OverLORDY]

Yeah, they are on the Empire again. Seriously, one of the reasons i like Call of Warhammer is that i can actually save Empire and make it a pretty good place to live in. Feels like saying a giant you to all this Grim Derpness.

[Klierowski]

Holy :O .

[Isdanil]

Holy moly, it looks... awesome !
...
NOT!

Actually, for all the hype this is getting, does anyone remember the Albion campaign or the whole fiasco with Storm of Chaos? This thing is gonna go the same route.... big hype, great battles, the good guys win, BAM, RETCONNED!
And Grimgor iz still da best.

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

I dunno, it seems like they've learned from the mistakes with Storm of Chaos, namely letting unregulated battle reports decide the outcomes and writing it in from there, then trying to change the results into something suitable, thereby making it all stupid.

This time they have Black Library quality writing and art right in the Games Workshop books, an intelligent and complex narrative with many many characters having their own motives, deaths that are surprising and add a real fear to the conflict. You see a character you like about to get into a tough fight? THEY MIGHT DIE. It ups the stakes.

And some characters are doing things very unexpected, showing layers to their personalities and complex alliances and betrayals happening all over. Unlike Storm of Chaos, this seems to be a well planned out and complex war on multiple fronts. It's almost A Song Of Ice And Fire/Game Of Thrones level of intrigue and war.

For instance, take Vlad Von Carstein. Nagash resurrected Vlad to act as a Mortarch, offering to resurrect Isabella if he complies. Vlad agreed, and is now a lieutenant of Nagash, but it's still Vlad, so he's searching for Isabella's remains, gave some magic books and spells to Balthasar Gelt to build a wall and protect The Empire. The Empire which Vlad wants to protect and rule, not utterly consume, unlike many "on his side". That's how The Empire got its Auric Bastion, with Vlad and his Undead Legions holding the Eastern flank of the defense line, keeping Chaos out of the Empire for a time, all the while secretly looking for Isabella's corpse so he may resurrect her and no longer need Nagash. And spoilers say in Book II he's even petitioned to be recognized as the Elector Count of Sylvania once more, with all the rights that entails. AND THAT'S JUST ONE CHARACTER'S MOTIVATIONS.

Just look at this map from Book II, with Vlad's Undead and a crusading Bretonnia both rushing to the aid of the hopelessly outmatched Karl Franz as Nurgle's massive armies surround Altdorf:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I dunno about you, but I think that's pretty awesome. And it's not just "The Empire is ****ed", it's every single army in the game range being put to war, on the move, and needing to form alliances, sometimes unlikely, or die. Hell, Book I had High Elves, Wood Elves, Empire Knights, and Dwarfs all agreeing to fight along side each other in battle. I say again, High Elves, Wood Elves, and Dwarfs. Together. As allies. They wouldn't do that if things weren't this grimdark, which is why it needs to be.

[Isdanil]

I wholeheartedly agree with you, the setting and idea is awesome.
I only doubt the eventual resolution. I mean... can you actually imagine Nagash winning? What would the setting be like, in 9th edition? Undead everywhere.

SKepticism aside, i like the evolution of Empire, I especially like the fluff about Bretonnia and am glad the VC and TK merged into a unified faction.

But, c'mon... Resurrected Vlad had books that described how to make a ing wall of awesomness that stopped the whole might of Chaos forces from the badass mothering chaos wastes? Thats some Deus ex Machina weird stuff... To add insult to injury, the guy who made it all possible was a dude whose purpose in life was to transmute metals and play shenanigans on trusting merchants. And in the end he recognizes that this might not be the world saving kind of magic and turns to necromancy. Thats a big load of saturday-morning-breakfast-silliness.

Still, i like the idea of a three-way all in bloodfest and i like the storytelling in the books. The only thing I sincerely don't like (i think the above stuff is funny, not bad) is the feeling I already know this is a dead end and will end in just another retcon.

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

Rumors are this is the leadup to 9th, where the landscape will have changed. Nagash isn't the only player making moves, remember, Teclis, Tyrion, Ariel and Alarielle, Malekith, Settra, Grimgor and Skarsnik, Drycha, Orion, Archaon, Be'lakor, Gilles Le Breton, Drachenfels, Vlad and Mannfred, ALL of the gods, including Khaine, Lileath, Sigmar, The Great Horned Rat, Gork and Mork, the Chaos Gods, and probably even the Old Ones are all scheming, among dozens of others. There's so many individual motives and masterminds spinning their webs that it isn't just Nagash vs. Chaos.

I expect things to change radically, but not the actual end of the world. And hopefully a much better ending than Grimgor headbutting Archaon and walking away.

[Isdanil]

Rumors are this is the leadup to 9th, where the landscape will have changed. Nagash isn't the only player making moves, remember, Teclis, Tyrion, Ariel and Alarielle, Malekith, Settra, Grimgor and Skarsnik, Drycha, Orion, Archaon, Be'lakor, Gilles Le Breton, Drachenfels, Vlad and Mannfred, ALL of the gods, including Khaine, Lileath, Sigmar, The Great Horned Rat, Gork and Mork, the Chaos Gods, and probably even the Old Ones are all scheming, among dozens of others. There's so many individual motives and masterminds spinning their webs that it isn't just Nagash vs. Chaos.

I expect things to change radically, but not the actual end of the world. And hopefully a much better ending than Grimgor headbutting Archaon and walking away.

After what has been going on in Ulthuan, i dont believe Elves will play a major role in this , the same with Malekith and his Dark Elves, being pretty far from anything and knee deep in Valkia and her Khornates. Also I thought it was stated that Ariel is dying. Also, Archaon IMHO lost all appeal as an arch-villain by being cockblocked from killing Valten by Luthor Huss and then promptly got his arse pretty much caved in by Grimgor's iron foot of badassnes. I know, not cannon, but its still hard not to think about every time i read the name.
That being said, i am EXTREMELY interested in the development of Settra, he has always been an interesting if somewhat neglected character (since character development in TK is somewhat... problematic, due to them being dead and such), so this new chaos Settra is a really charming turn of events. Also, after Neferata's return to spotlight (as opposed to sitting on her ass doing nothing for milennia), Vlad's resurrection and Walach Harcon converting to Khorne, i am more and more interested in what Abhorash has been doing all that time.

Still, I cannot really imagine the bad guys winning. No matter how many times chaos loses, they will rase a new horde and threaten the world again. No matter how many times you kill Nagash, he just comes back. But it only takes one loss for the good guys to lose everything. Good people dont come from the dead in WH, at least not often (Volkmar from Storm of Chaos could speak volumes on how rare an occurence that is).

But, the posibilities still look VERY interesting !

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

After what has been going on in Ulthuan, i dont believe Elves will play a major role in this , the same with Malekith and his Dark Elves, being pretty far from anything and knee deep in Valkia and her Khornates.

Did you miss the subtext where Teclis is allied with Malekith and deliberately kept Tyrion in Ulthuan so the Nagash would absorb the not-Everchild (being Tyrion's daughter, not Finubar's), thus preventing Nagash's ritual from making him too powerful, so he'd have to take time building power by eating some Dwarf and Tomb Kings gods, giving themselves time to prepare, probably including drawing the sword of Khaine? And that probably is pretty definite, considering one of the expected End Times books is End Times: Khaine.

[Isdanil]

Did you miss the subtext where Teclis is allied with Malekith and deliberately kept Tyrion in Ulthuan so the Nagash would absorb the not-Everchild (being Tyrion's daughter, not Finubar's), thus preventing Nagash's ritual from making him too powerful, so he'd have to take time building power by eating some Dwarf and Tomb Kings gods, giving themselves time to prepare, probably including drawing the sword of Khaine? And that probably is pretty definite, considering one of the expected End Times books is End Times: Khaine.

I was more referring to the fact, that recent events took a great toll on the armies of Ulthuan and Naggaroth with all the deamon infestations and Valkia's invasion. Not to mention an internal division among the elves.

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

Oh yeah, they have their own problems, but they're not out of the picture because of it. No army is. Even Bretonnia is marching into the Empire, and they lost about 3/4 of their people.

[SudoKnight]

Was it ever explained how Daemon armies were able to come in such great numbers? After all, one of the main parts of the lore is that the Daemons could only arrive in limited numbers or form a single "small" (by Daemon standards) army with the help of magic users.

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

Was it ever explained how Daemon armies were able to come in such great numbers? After all, one of the main parts of the lore is that the Daemons could only arrive in limited numbers or form a single "small" (by Daemon standards) army with the help of magic users.

Not yet, other than things right now being the culmination of every prophecy and omen ever. The twin tailed comet is in the sky, death itself has changed, the winds of magic are going wild, the old gods are weakening, and so daemons being able to manifest in greater numbers than ever before is just another piece of it.

[Klierowski]

I don't like the fact that the bad ones are so powerfool, i know it's grim fantasy but it's insane how weak the good/neutral mortals are.

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

I don't like the fact that the bad ones are so powerfool, i know it's grim fantasy but it's insane how weak the good/neutral mortals are.

Not really, considering

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Bretonnia is now lead by the immortal king Gilles le Breton, who is The Green Knight, Karl Franz has ascended to become some kind of demi-god avatar of all previous emperors including Sigmar and Magnus the Pious, able to completely obliterate all the Daemons and Undead in Altdorf in an instant, both Athel Loren and Ulthuan have a lot of stuff going on involving gods and powerful characters, one of the upcoming End Times books is called End Times: Khaine... not to mention Vlad Von Carstein wants to be an Elector Count and save The Empire.

[Isdanil]

I am curious whether Karl Franz will approve of the agreement between Helborg and Vlad, considering his electorship. Also, i wouldn't call the good guys weak. Valten killed Crom, Louen Leoncoueur killed Great Unclean One single handedly, Helborg nearly did so too (and since greater (exalted?) daemons are considered some of the strongest beings in the universe, that makes them pretty badass). Its just that the writers go to great lengths to portray the characters as weak and desperately struggling, but in fact, when the alpha males of both sides clash, it goes pretty even.

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

I am curious whether Karl Franz will approve of the agreement between Helborg and Vlad, considering his electorship. Also, i wouldn't call the good guys weak. Valten killed Crom, Louen Leoncoueur killed Great Unclean One single handedly, Helborg nearly did so too (and since greater (exalted?) daemons are considered some of the strongest beings in the universe, that makes them pretty badass). Its just that the writers go to great lengths to portray the characters as weak and desperately struggling, but in fact, when the alpha males of both sides clash, it goes pretty even.

The good guys aren't so much weak as they are hopelessly outnumbered by enemies on all sides, to the point where they survive by being both utter badasses and lucky enough that their enemies fight amongst each other, too. Even when being shown being beaten back in the fluff, Empire/Dwarfs/High Elves/Bretonnians/etc. are shown withstanding the brunt of the enemy, even holding out against terrible odds, but something has to come in to tip the scales further. Like Nurgle's forces against The Empire, the state troops formed their disciplined lines and beat back the innumerable marauders for a while, but through attrition, disease, and being assaulted from all sides they started losing. It's like calling the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae wimps for not beating the millions of Persians on their own.

As far as Karl Franz Ascended honoring Kurt Helborg's agreement to allow Vlad to be an Elector Count, I'm not too sure. The fact that his god nuke wiped out all the remaining Undead just as much as the Daemons doesn't make it look like it considered them allies.