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Thread: Bugs & Feedback

  1. #21

    Default Re: Bugs & Feedback

    Taken the Arevaci campaign as far as I can go. It seems that at a certain point recruitment buildings don't unlock new units. There's bonuses but I'm not seeing some of the higher tier units that the roster has in custom battle.

    I had great fun though and I think the battles are spot on. I confess, when I finished testing them I went back to another mod for some of the campaign mechanics but once you experience Vae Victis combat you really can't go back, everything else feels too 'gamey' .

    Are there any other small factions you guys would like tested, or any particular type of campaign? I'm not sure which rosters have been fully overhauled but I'm eager to try out another style.
    Last edited by MattyCakes; November 01, 2014 at 09:59 PM.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Bugs & Feedback

    Check out the faction list - all the factions in bold have been overhauled. There's Germanics, Romans, Greeks, Carthaginians, etc. to choose from

  3. #23
    Decanus
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    Default Re: Bugs & Feedback

    Playing as Etruscans and loved it. But a few things:

    1. the experience gain I think is too slow!
    2. why do spear units have no bonus vs cavalry?
    3. I'm hoping my etruscan axemen, with their bonus vs infantry at 6, can make up for really low other stats.
    4. the train troops stance, it was not clear whether or not I was actually getting the bonus 100 wealth from commerce, seemed that I was not.
    5. mustering reduces growth by 10, that is a LOT for small factions with only one settlement especially considering I'm only recruiting 1 unit at a time. If it's possible to make it -5 growth per unit that would be great but I don't think it is huh... anyway very good effect but really steep for small factions.
    6. my game crashed in a battle after I tried to alter graphics settings. not sure if that is mod related.

    Rome attacked at turn 1 as I expected. It was a really good settlement defense and I loved how the troops routed in mass just as I was surrounding them it was a very realistic effect. Also really loved to see the high upkeep for general body guards! love it because it makes fielding a general a much more realistic dilemma - shooting generals out left right and centre really bugs me in vanilla and other mods, it makes them feel cheap.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Bugs & Feedback

    1) yeah, that may get tweaked some day once we get a good feel for kill and survival rates with our new combat system
    2) we moved all AP damage to the vs inf, cav fields, and got rid of the idiotic "spears kill cav with extra magic" concept and instead the level of bonus vs cav is based on things like weapon reach and damage and unit training level. Spears should generally have some bonus vs cav..
    3) axes are good vs most armours, but are far less wieldy than a spear or sword (much cheaper than swords too).. definitely a "hit or miss" weapon
    4) k.. we'll take a look at that again
    5) hmm yeah it annoyed me too a bit in my playtests this week.. though I'm guessing -5 would pretty much stop most growth anyway for the little factions. We'll keep an eye on it.
    6) no clue

    and yeah, I love having elite generals too (though the AI doesn't always realize the benefit of using them), with the constant cost/benefit analysis going on in my head of whether it's worth risking his life in battle to swing the fight in this or that spot
    The game gave me a mission to recruit a second general (for 500 coin reward) and I mindlessly recruited the general and then remembered that he costs 340ish upkeep I should know better hehe

  5. #25
    Decanus
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    Default Re: Bugs & Feedback

    I'm happy to hear all that Magnar, especially the last point but I fear I may have been too hasty with my initial analysis altogether!
    I was happy to hear this admittance of haste because as I read through the first post I kept thinking "everything that he's complaining about happens to be the elements of this campaign that I absolutely love" .. The restrictive game play means you really have got to think about your options. You don't develop your settlement while shooting out agents, generals and units, but rather you must really weigh your options. The negative growth tied to recruitment means you're really gambling with your faction if you choose to build an army early. I could hardly get any pacts with my neighbors (as Massalia) and so I played it smart and did not recruit hardly at all for very many turns so that I could build a port and a muster field. I had a sure feeling that I would be on the defensive and I was right - my fishing port completed just in time to provide the troop replenishment I needed following being sieged by arverni. It was enough to make me feel really proud because I am now set with a fishing port and a muster field where as all these invading armies are poorly equipt and are out money after having lost a lot of units. Seriously, this was all a methodical gamble that turned out exactly how I had hoped it would but more importantly it was a rational plan devised years earlier taking in to consideration all kinds of aspects of my position as a faction. Thus, campaigning with this mods more restrictive values really does produce pride in a well managed faction development.

    I'm sure some of the poorer factions will need a little bump here and there to make them playable but please do not revert away from these higher build costs and restrictive recruitment values. But just a few more things: As Masallia the two level 2 military build options are strange - one unlocks citizen cavalry and a recruitment slot the other only adds a recruitment slot. The one is indeed cheaper than the other but, not cheaper to the extent that I could reject a cavalry unlock to build it. Also, it is indeed a little counter intuitive when factions have 0 food and then mustering is producing -5 food. What does it mean exactly? Why didn't my existing troops starve? Minus 5 food doesn't seem right also because mustering is supposed to improve troop replenishment and not hurt it (though I'm interested to see how this negative plays out later in the campaign).

    Battles have been absolutely great at x2 sizes also.

  6. #26
    Magnar's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Bugs & Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by Roach View Post
    I started a Parthian campaign to day to get a feel for how things run over there. As a consequence of its move it starts as an Eastern faction in a region that is 100% nomad culture, so you spend the first year or two stabilizing your happiness and working on culture so that your minor settlement can grow so that you can recruit your basic troops (foot archers are obviously useless). It's tough to expand right now, since all the factions around you still have vanilla garrisons stuffed with pikemen, thureos spears (which ugh need to disappear already and come back at a later date hehe) and eastern spearmen. Parthava and Aria were in a military alliance so it was suicide to declare war on them. I ended up stuck with no place to expand except maybe north, which I didn't really want to do. I'll come back some other day and see if I can break out and conquer the east against all odds

    Until then, back to the Aetolian League I'm thinking.

    Ill change the starting culture of the Parthian starting region to Eastern for the hotfix.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Bugs & Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by La Tene View Post
    Playing as Etruscans and loved it. But a few things:

    1. the experience gain I think is too slow!
    2. why do spear units have no bonus vs cavalry?
    3. I'm hoping my etruscan axemen, with their bonus vs infantry at 6, can make up for really low other stats.
    4. the train troops stance, it was not clear whether or not I was actually getting the bonus 100 wealth from commerce, seemed that I was not.
    5. mustering reduces growth by 10, that is a LOT for small factions with only one settlement especially considering I'm only recruiting 1 unit at a time. If it's possible to make it -5 growth per unit that would be great but I don't think it is huh... anyway very good effect but really steep for small factions.
    6. my game crashed in a battle after I tried to alter graphics settings. not sure if that is mod related.

    Rome attacked at turn 1 as I expected. It was a really good settlement defense and I loved how the troops routed in mass just as I was surrounding them it was a very realistic effect. Also really loved to see the high upkeep for general body guards! love it because it makes fielding a general a much more realistic dilemma - shooting generals out left right and centre really bugs me in vanilla and other mods, it makes them feel cheap.

    6). Happens to me to sense patch, screen goes black, just need to restart game, its CA's bug

  8. #28
    billydilly's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Bugs & Feedback

    6. also happens to me, but only in battles. If I quit the battle and go back to the Main Menu everything is fine.

    Are enemy units suppose to rout so quickly? As Rome I attacked Lilybaeum which had a 20-unit garrison. I only had to use shieldwall to block a couple of streets. The enemy attacked my shield wall, I lost 249 men, they lost around 2600 men.
    CPU: Intel i7-8700. GPU: MSI GTX 1070 Armor 8G. RAM: Corsair Vengance, 16Gb HD: Kingston SSD 240Gb (System), Samsung 850 Evo SSD 500Gb (Steam), Western Digital 500Gb. PSU: Corsair CX600W

  9. #29

    Default Re: Bugs & Feedback

    Different units rout at different rates, so you'll have to get a feel for how different units and factions play. Heavy infantry can often stick around seemingly forever if not flanked or missiled to death. If the AI can't/doesn't flank your heavier infantry, then you will only be beaten by higher quality infantry which they clearly did not have.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Bugs & Feedback

    I noticed that Bythinia has two units of "heavy cav" that are actually spearmen in battle. Not sure if that was intentional or not, but it seems a bit strange.

    Also seems cav are a bit overpowered given that spears have essentially no bonus against them. Annoying to watch a unit of cav engaged in close combat with a hoplite wall and not taking any casualties. Had I not flanked them with a second unit of hoplites it seems they would have been in endless combat. Somehow it doesn't seem plausible for cav to hold a stationary battle line.

    Love the other battle machanics so far however. AI seems improved, tactics are far more dynamic and fatigue regain seems a bit quicker. I was actually able to withdraw my infantry for a quick rest while bringing other units into a flanking position. Refreshing to fight tactical battles instead of the usual arm wrestling match.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Bugs & Feedback

    Playing as Bithynia now and having a blast. I'm going to save my experience for it's own post in the main forum but some feedback so far:

    -Temples generate eastern culture but I'm listed as Hellenic. Didn't seem to effect me negatively.
    -Bithynia has no dilemmas, just random festival/religious bonuses for a certain amount of turns. (Probably because theyre not playable vanilla?)
    -Pike units, even levy ones seem to have a pretty high damage threshold even from the flanks. Attacking from behind produced better results.
    -Building chains are unclear but I think this is due to the vanilla structure. Are you guys modifying it?
    -Both as the Arevaci and Bithynia I haven't been able to build any siege engines from the building. Intentional?
    -Enemy theuros spears WRECK anything their javelins hit. I had quite a few hoplite units break this way.
    -The Bithynian heavy peltasts are good but despite the stats they don't do so well in melee. I wanted a good sword unit but had to rely on allied theuros spears because of their performance. Are they intended for flanking only?
    -Your archer stats are *just right* Against anyone with a helmet and shields they're not effective but are good at adding pressure. Anyone else gets eaten up, but not at an unrealistic rate.

    Might try Carthage out next!
    Last edited by MattyCakes; November 02, 2014 at 02:29 PM.

  12. #32
    Magnar's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Bugs & Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyCakes View Post
    Playing as Bithynia now and having a blast. I'm going to save my experience for it's own post in the main forum but some feedback so far:

    -Temples generate eastern culture but I'm listed as Hellenic. Didn't seem to effect me negatively.
    -Bithynia has no dilemmas, just random festival/religious bonuses for a certain amount of turns. (Probably because theyre not playable vanilla?)
    -Pike units, even levy ones seem to have a pretty high damage threshold even from the flanks. Attacking from behind produced better results.
    -Building chains are unclear but I think this is due to the vanilla structure. Are you guys modifying it?
    -Both as the Arevaci and Bithynia I haven't been able to build any siege engines from the building. Intentional?
    -Enemy theuros spears WRECK anything their javelins hit. I had quite a few hoplite units break this way.
    -The Bithynian heavy peltasts are good but despite the stats they don't do so well in melee. I wanted a good sword unit but had to rely on allied theuros spears because of their performance. Are they intended for flanking only?
    -Your archer stats are *just right* Against anyone with a helmet and shields they're not effective but are good at adding pressure. Anyone else gets eaten up, but not at an unrealistic rate.

    Might try Carthage out next!
    Re: Temples, will add to the bugs list to be looked at

    re: Dilemas, probably due to vanilla non playable. We've not touched that side of things for any factions... yet

    re: Buildings, currently vanilla, we will overhaul them all in the future so not doing any patch work to them till then

    re: siege equipment, it is only added for factions that used it. That means that many eastern, african and barbarian factions get no siege equipment which will make besiege settlements harder

    re: Thureos javs, thats intentional. They have very low ammo though, so save them for the units you really want to wreck

  13. #33

    Default Re: Bugs & Feedback

    Just trying to get a Carthage campaign underway. It's always been a hard faction to get started but public order is out of control right from the get-go. The low building slots and other cultures are the primary reasons but I think I can make it work so I'll have feedback on that faction soon enough. I really like your decision to allow the recruitment of higher tier Carthaginian cav and hoplites in major cities. It adds a sense of realism and the fact that they're expensive doesn't allow them to be abused.

    I had one suggestion though. Has the team considered making a battle mechanics video tutorial? I saw Miri post something about having your general or strong units nearby and it totally made a difference. I think laying out all the intricacies of your mod in a clear format would benefit people coming from Vanilla or other overhauls and both Magnar and General Patton have clear speaking voices and make great videos.

    I'm sure you could also put together a nicely organized post with pictures as well. I think a good set of tutorials for all VV's features and the play style differences for factions could prevent people from feeling like they're doing something wrong or the mod isn't a good fit.
    Last edited by MattyCakes; November 03, 2014 at 11:20 AM.

  14. #34
    Magnar's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Bugs & Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyCakes View Post
    Just trying to get a Carthage campaign underway. It's always been a hard faction to get started but public order is out of control right from the get-go. The low building slots and other cultures are the primary reasons but I think I can make it work so I'll have feedback on that faction soon enough. I really like your decision to allow the recruitment of higher tier Carthaginian cav and hoplites in major cities. It adds a sense of realism and the fact that they're expensive doesn't allow them to be abused.

    I had one suggestion though. Has the team considered making a battle mechanics video tutorial? I saw Miri post something about having your general or strong units nearby and it totally made a difference. I think laying out all the intricacies of your mod in a clear format would benefit people coming from Vanilla or other overhauls and both Magnar and General Patton have clear speaking voices and make great videos.

    I'm sure you could also put together a nicely organized post with pictures as well. I think a good set of tutorials for all VV's features could prevent people from feeling like they're doing something wrong or the mod isn't a good fit.
    here is a video talking about the battle mechanics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dJYxZc3gPQ

    more documentation is definitely needed and also being worked on.

  15. #35
    Laetus
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    Default Re: Bugs & Feedback

    Just a quick question: what difficulty setting is the mod balanced for? Should I play it on Legendary for the "intended" effect?

  16. #36
    Laetus
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    Default Re: Bugs & Feedback

    Is it Hard, which is being used in the Let's Play series on YouTube?

    PS - sorry for the double-post. Couldn't find an Edit button.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Bugs & Feedback

    Battles were balanced on normal difficulty level.

    Campaigns will be balanced for normal or hard

  18. #38
    Laetus
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    Default Re: Bugs & Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnar View Post
    Battles were balanced on normal difficulty level.

    Campaigns will be balanced for normal or hard
    Thank you very much for the prompt reply, Magnar!

  19. #39

    Default Re: Bugs & Feedback

    I have met here this icon the Roman the Union marines on the ship.
    This style Bullgod icons. I very much hope that you will remove it and leave the or the original style icons, the frescoes, or create your own realistic.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Bugs & Feedback

    I like very much the mod, the effort, the details and the BAI and the concept of this mod.

    On the other hand I am a campaign player and would like to get a more polished CAI and economic balance.

    From my point of view, I am not quite happy with few things, playing as Sparta, Athen or New Carthage (in Larisa). I only tried 4 different campaign so far with V V.
    - the balance of low income and very high building costs in addition to very long research makes it to more than a challenge
    - I got extreme trouble with the "empty" enemy cities with garrison by 12-19 units when besieged plus the army inside itself is almost 2 full stacks to defeat with a little army only, due to poor income and high costs.
    - main problem is the unit size in city battles. When in siege battles of a "non wall" city you will find about 25 units with its big number. All you see is a crowded city center and the AI doesn't know how to handle the 5000 units within the narrow streets, so its just a big 5000 units block and no any fun to fight and play. No any fun because for fun you need also taktical movements and maneuvers e.t.c.
    - I also recognized that some foreign units ar just parking somewhere as army or fleet, for about 20-30 turns and longer without going somewhere, strange

    I like the bigger unit size in open battles for some more epic feeling but in the streets of a village or city the AI got real trouble to handle it.

    Don't get me wrong, I can understand that it is not finshed yet for campaign gameplay but for me it's the most importand aspect for SP.

    Keep up the good work !

    I stay tuned and I will wait for any upcoming progress because I like the accurate approach with this historical mod.

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