The Chat Thread (Read OP)

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

I don't like social media either. I would rather talk to a single person at a time or face to face hang out. Forums are basically that but in written form.

[Hobbes]

As for the Trump victory, I was overjoyed. Brexit too. I hope that Le Pen will win in France. And I also hope that the Netherlands and Austria will elect a right-wing leadership. At the moment, the right, truly, are the progressives of our times.

Sad.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Aren't you both Communists? This is a dream come true. Both of you please fight for my amusement.
Hobbes can be the revisionist Kruschevist and Diamat can be the traditionalist Maoist. Then I will send Kissinger over to sign a deal with Diamat and we can gang up on Hobbes while stealing all the French gold and screwing over Vietnam from both sides.

[Hobbes]

I personally use socialist and communist interchangeably to describe myself.

[Diamat]

Well, I consider my views to still be leftist, just not in the sense of the hippie left of today. Any true leftist ought to be against the European Union, an undemocratic, hard-to-regulate, supra-national, bourgeois entity. As for my support of Trump and Le Pen, it's a bit more difficult to explain. But essentially, I will let the words of Rosa Luxemburg speak for themselves:

Freedom only for the members of the government, only for the members of the Party — though they are quite numerous — is no freedom at all. Freedom is always the freedom of dissenters. The essence of political freedom depends not on the fanatics of 'justice', but rather on all the invigorating, beneficial, and detergent effects of dissenters. If 'freedom' becomes 'privilege', the workings of political freedom are broken.

[Hobbes]

Any true leftist ought to be against the European Union, an undemocratic, hard-to-regulate, supra-national, bourgeois entity

Going from that to "I will now be supporting fascism instead" is a pretty big leap. BTW, I bet my ass Rosa is talking about the measures the Bolsheviks were taking in order to make people socialist (by smothering dissent) or something like that. In any case I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion. Is this some sort of misguided accelerationism, Diamat? You say you're a leftist, yet you support entirely capitalist, anti-proletarian and oppressive movements.

Edit: I got it, I think. You view these movements as dissenting. You've actually bought into their anti-establishment shtick.

[Diamat]

Going from that to "I will now be supporting fascism instead" is a pretty big leap. BTW, I bet my ass Rosa is talking about the measures the Bolsheviks were taking in order to make people socialist (by smothering dissent) or something like that. In any case I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion. Is this some sort of misguided accelerationism, Diamat? You say you're a leftist, yet you support entirely capitalist, anti-proletarian and oppressive movements.

You are right about the quote. But I was using it in regard to social justice warriors, who present themselves as the left of today and act in a similar fashion to Leninists.

Trump does not represent fascism. I'm not sure where you're getting this from. Based on Trump's platform, one would expect small government. Fascism is quite the opposite of that. You mean racism? If so, that's also inaccurate.

[Hobbes]

You know what, imma be honest with you, I don't think anyone knows what Trump stands for or what his plan is exactly. I don't think he himself knows. But he has said many things which are absolutely terrifying: make America great again, cracking down on protests, dismantling the healthcare system, his endless racist tirades. I mean the way I see it, it could go the completely opposite way, because he contradicts himself all the time, but be sure of one thing: this capitalist does not have your best interests at heart. This is a man who back in the 90s called Republican voters brainwashed idiots, a man who has chosen terrible advisers (I'm not even going to talk about Pence right now), a man whose election has empowered racist and authoritarian voices... I am against the liberalism espoused by many of those SJWs, but I am not going to support nationalists and extreme right-wingers. If anything, Americans (and everyone else) need to become more acquainted with socialism, not support these dangerous people.

[Påsan]

"A state of society where men can not speak their minds cannot long endure"

Honestly as a leftist I regard most american politicians as wierd caricatures of real people, but I got a lot of enjoyment watching the media and the public opinion gestapo get squashed by both brexit and the american election. In 2018 Iexpect Sweden to be next in line for the roller coaster.

2016 have been a bad year, but hopefully its also the year where politicians learnt the risk of ignoring their people.

[Derpy Hooves]

Well you guys can thank me for Trump winning, I worked the ground game in the two states which haven't turned red in almost 30 years (although I voted for the Johnson )

@Pasan
Yeah, that's how I feel a bit. I think Trump is embarrassing to have as a president, but then I thought the same with Hillary + her provocations towards Russia.

[Flinn]

I won't be that optimistic as you Pasan; history proved that the politicians do not listen to people, otherwise we would have never had the 20th century with all its terrible wars

[Diamat]

You know what, imma be honest with you, I don't think anyone knows what Trump stands for or what his plan is exactly. I don't think he himself knows. But he has said many things which are absolutely terrifying: make America great again, cracking down on protests, dismantling the healthcare system, his endless racist tirades. I mean the way I see it, it could go the completely opposite way, because he contradicts himself all the time, but be sure of one thing: this capitalist does not have your best interests at heart. This is a man who back in the 90s called Republican voters brainwashed idiots, a man who has chosen terrible advisers (I'm not even going to talk about Pence right now), a man whose election has empowered racist and authoritarian voices... I am against the liberalism espoused by many of those SJWs, but I am not going to support nationalists and extreme right-wingers. If anything, Americans (and everyone else) need to become more acquainted with socialism, not support these dangerous people.

Don't get me wrong. I think Trump is an idiot. Nevertheless, he was the most representative option. There is a huge difference between American cities and small towns/countryside. However, city folks don't even realize this fact, living as they are in a bubble. And the media is the mouthpiece of these people. Moreover, these people are largely Democrats. They are a type of Worker Aristocracy similar to what Lenin talked about. One cannot consider them proletarians. The proletarians are the ones responsible for electing Trump.

@Pasan: Yes, this was a bad year. For me too. Currently going through divorce. A Hegelian existential crisis.

[Flinn]

@Pasan: Yes, this was a bad year. For me too. Currently going through divorce. A Hegelian existential crisis.

sad to know; I remember pictures of you showing a happy couple

[Derpy Hooves]

Don't get me wrong. I think Trump is an idiot. Nevertheless, he was the most representative option. There is a huge difference between American cities and small towns/countryside. However, city folks don't even realize this fact, living as they are in a bubble. And the media is the mouthpiece of these people. Moreover, these people are largely Democrats. They are a type of Worker Aristocracy similar to what Lenin talked about. One cannot consider them proletarians. The proletarians are the ones responsible for electing Trump.

This is what my liberal city friends don't understand.

[Hobbes]

Don't get me wrong. I think Trump is an idiot. Nevertheless, he was the most representative option. There is a huge difference between American cities and small towns/countryside. However, city folks don't even realize this fact, living as they are in a bubble. And the media is the mouthpiece of these people. Moreover, these people are largely Democrats. They are a type of Worker Aristocracy similar to what Lenin talked about. One cannot consider them proletarians. The proletarians are the ones responsible for electing Trump.

@Pasan: Yes, this was a bad year. For me too. Currently going through divorce. A Hegelian existential crisis.

Representative of who? The rural/urban divide is real, no one's doubting that, and Trump is going to do absolutely nothing to help the white proletarians who voted for him. Especially with a red senate and congress. Trump was elected for the same reasons Obama was elected: people are sick and tired of a system that is doing nothing for them, and want change. Let's just hope they look for it in the right places once their so-called antiestablishmentarian outsider fails them.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Representative of who? The rural/urban divide is real, no one's doubting that, and Trump is going to do absolutely nothing to help the white proletarians who voted for him. Especially with a red senate and congress. Trump was elected for the same reasons Obama was elected: people are sick and tired of a system that is doing nothing for them, and want change. Let's just hope they look for it in the right places once their so-called antiestablishmentarian outsider fails them.

Where else would they look? 420 Gary? Jill the inside job Stein?

[Diamat]

Representative of who? The rural/urban divide is real, no one's doubting that, and Trump is going to do absolutely nothing to help the white proletarians who voted for him. Especially with a red senate and congress. Trump was elected for the same reasons Obama was elected: people are sick and tired of a system that is doing nothing for them, and want change. Let's just hope they look for it in the right places once their so-called antiestablishmentarian outsider fails them.

Representative of the ones who elected him. Let's see how it plays out. But somehow I doubt Trump will simply serve big capital. I might be wrong. But one thing is for sure: this is a major opportunity or at least possibility of having a populist politics. Such situations are rare in the US. I hope it works out. If Trump strengthens the power of the central government and does nothing for the poor, then I will be disappointed.

[Påsan]

@Pasan: Yes, this was a bad year. For me too. Currently going through divorce. A Hegelian existential crisis

Damn that got me a bit down. Sorry to hear that

[Sir Adrian]

@Pasan: Yes, this was a bad year. For me too. Currently going through divorce. A Hegelian existential crisis.

I am with you my avian brother. You will overcome the treachery of Zeola.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

WTF Diamat you literally just triggered me.
Seriously dude I don't even know what to say.
life