Brussels to UK, Giz a quid geezer!

[Denny Crane!]

I'll summarise the article since that which I have read resides behind a pay wall:

To compensate for the UK performing better than other EU countries based on metrics from 1995 onwards the UK should pay a top up of £2.1 Billion Euros, a one off payment while France receives a £1 Billion Euro refund. Holland is also being asked to make a similar payment.

The change stems from the EU choosing to include such things as prostitution and illegal drugs. The UK apparently can afford more Cannabis than Greece this year and we've snorted one line to many of illicit white powder and some of that sniff should be being had by our Italian friends.

This will be in addition to our 8.6 Billion payment, Germany will receive a rebate of 779 million Euros.

I am somewhat astounded to see we'll be making a top up payment that is very substantial while Germany receives a rebate, and France who despite their woes are significantly larger than the UK in economic terms.

[Mementomoridc]

I think you should be happy you have an economy at all. The UK is basically NY City plus 2 factories 1 shipyard and a little sheep grazing land.

You are right though, this seems rather dumb on the whole but without more info will be hard to make a real assesment.

[Denny Crane!]

I think you should be happy you have an economy at all. The UK is basically NY City plus 2 factories 1 shipyard and a little sheep grazing land.

You are right though, this seems rather dumb on the whole but without more info will be hard to make a real assesment.

A spectacularly ignorant assessment, why would I say this? While Germany and France are significantly larger as noted which makes me think this odd, the UK is a diverse economy and the 7th/8th off the top of my head in exports worldwide, it is certainly more than just NY city and two factories. All of which is irrelevant to the topic at hand like.

[Aymer de Valence]

This is why I hate Europeans

[Phier]

The change stems from the EU choosing to include such things as prostitution and illegal drugs.

[hellheaven1987]

Prostitution and homebrew liquor, two things British are excellent about for centuries.

[Basil II the B.S]

I'll summarise the article since that which I have read resides behind a pay wall:



I am somewhat astounded to see we'll be making a top up payment that is very substantial while Germany receives a rebate, and France who despite their woes are significantly larger than the UK in economic terms.

Read a few articles on it months ago. The insanity is that ''prostitution and drugs''' are calculated on ''estimations''. Pretty much we won't have reliable official economic data on the EU countries anymore.
Insanity continues.

[Denny Crane!]

Read a few articles on it months ago. The insanity is that ''prostitution and drugs''' are calculated on ''estimations''. Pretty much we won't have reliable official economic data on the EU countries anymore.
Insanity continues.

I keep thinking I'm getting to anti EU and they keep feeding me this crap. Its like they are begging me to not like them. What is worse is, for the people who are rabidly anti EU this is just like a giant early Christmas present.

Perhaps at a time when no country is actually doing well and its citizens are suffering, no budgets are balanced, now is not the time to be asking for an extra couple of billion from members.

[Basil II the B.S]

I keep thinking I'm getting to anti EU and they keep feeding me this crap. Its like they are begging me to not like them. What is worse is, for the people who are rabidly anti EU this is just like a giant early Christmas present.

Perhaps at a time when no country is actually doing well and its citizens are suffering, no budgets are balanced, now is not the time to be asking for an extra couple of billion from members.

If they can make facepalm even people who are pro-EU (see me), it's hardly surprising.
Now we'll have data that treat Netherlands, where prostitution is legal and regulated, and Italy (for example) where it's not, as the same. You know things will fall apart when they completely lack common sense.
But hey, let's see if they manage to get Marine Le Pen elected or the UK leave, and then whine about it.

[justicar5]

I keep thinking I'm getting to anti EU and they keep feeding me this crap. Its like they are begging me to not like them. What is worse is, for the people who are rabidly anti EU this is just like a giant early Christmas present.

Perhaps at a time when no country is actually doing well and its citizens are suffering, no budgets are balanced, now is not the time to be asking for an extra couple of billion from members.

Contributions are based on GDP, if as the Coalition claims our GDP is growing and unemployment falling, we we more dues than last year, if however they have not, Cameron et al have lied.

[Denny Crane!]

Contributions are based on GDP, if as the Coalition claims our GDP is growing and unemployment falling, we we more dues than last year, if however they have not, Cameron et al have lied.

Actually if you read the report this is not based on the last 4 years but since 1995 I believe which would include the false boom years under Labour but that isn't what is blowing people away. It is that 1. they want it all back in one go and 2. that it is based on Sex Drugs and Rock and Roll apparently and not in any empirical way - guesswork.

Try just a little not to be so very very partisan. Just occasionally.

[Mangalore]

Actually if you read the report this is not based on the last 4 years but since 1995 I believe which would include the false boom years under Labour but that isn't what is blowing people away. It is that 1. they want it all back in one go and 2. that it is based on Sex Drugs and Rock and Roll apparently and not in any empirical way - guesswork.

...

Well, the UK signed up on the new calculation so it's mainly worrying that London is a global financial market but the UK government can't count.

I can't really judge on the new GDP calculation, but I do assume this change has a justification aimed at reducing inaccuracies (I don't know how good), there is plenty of guesswork in GDP calculations either way.

[Dante Von Hespburg]

Contributions are based on GDP, if as the Coalition claims our GDP is growing and unemployment falling, we we more dues than last year, if however they have not, Cameron et al have lied.

Denny's summed it up pretty well my friend.

Indeed i'm quite surprised here in the thread, the major issue being put forward isn't that the UK is pissed at having to pay (As has been said/reported quite in depth, Cameron didn't say he wasn't going to pay- his choice of words was very carefully coached by someone).

It's the fact that A) The figures are taken into account for the first time the 'black economies of states'... which is just thick, there's no other way of looking at it, especially as the figures for such an estimate are based on little to no data (ergo pulled out arse)- this is something the UK disputes, and has landed states like Greece having to pay more, and also Italy- As someone rightly said before hand, estimates put Italy's black economy at 5-20%... which figure are they using!? That's a massive difference there.

B) Also the timescale- a lump, all in one go, suddenly announced last week...by December. Who's stupid idea was that? If the EU is set on economic implosion, then their doing it right...because you know kicking one of the few healthy growing economies into the ground is a fab idea. And quite frankly that timescale will- the UK's recovery is based on people working harder for a lot less in essence- part time and 0 hour contracts, and wages being no where near inflation, and falling behind quite consistently. It's a big issue. Especially as much of the recovery is people consuming again, the hike in VAT to pay for this in such a short time will break many people, we're already having people who are choosing between heating this winter and food.

This is again why the EU needs to get a grip on the bigger picture- If they want the UK to pull up France and an ailing Germany, that's fine, that's us doing our part in the Eurozone (Though they must bear in mind, unlike those two states, the UK is doing better off because we didn't have the issues with the Euro... perhaps everyone should switch to the pound? - That's actually a serious suggestion too, though i feel the same thing would happen due to the economic disparity between EU members at it's most basic.)

But the point is, if the EU wishes to get more involved in state government, go down that federal route. It's got to give a damn about more than figures and trying to prop up it's ailing economy. It's the people it has a duty to- the UK can pay indeed, but there's better way's than slaughtering struggling people (A big one would be a more realistic and sensible time scale... also sort out France with it's arguably valid claims to not take on the EU budget). There needs to be some serious talks and serious reform (For starters openess about how the figures have been arrived at for the black market 'contributions' - so stupid).

I personally feel the EU is potentially a very good body to belong to- especially if the Free trade deal with the US get's signed (Predicted an extra 10 billion boost to the UK's economy alone and free access to an incredibly large market- also it'll do well in driving prices down here as suddenly our big companies will have to compete with the US- i'm thinking Tesco, Asda and co against Walmart- though Aldi and Lidil are doing this already to some extent).

[justicar5]

Denny's summed it up pretty well my friend.

Indeed i'm quite surprised here in the thread, the major issue being put forward isn't that the UK is pissed at having to pay (As has been said/reported quite in depth, Cameron didn't say he wasn't going to pay- his choice of words was very carefully coached by someone).

It's the fact that A) The figures are taken into account for the first time the 'black economies of states'... which is just thick, there's no other way of looking at it, especially as the figures for such an estimate are based on little to no data (ergo pulled out arse)- this is something the UK disputes, and has landed states like Greece having to pay more, and also Italy- As someone rightly said before hand, estimates put Italy's black economy at 5-20%... which figure are they using!? That's a massive difference there.

B) Also the timescale- a lump, all in one go, suddenly announced last week...by December. Who's stupid idea was that? If the EU is set on economic implosion, then their doing it right...because you know kicking one of the few healthy growing economies into the ground is a fab idea. And quite frankly that timescale will- the UK's recovery is based on people working harder for a lot less in essence- part time and 0 hour contracts, and wages being no where near inflation, and falling behind quite consistently. It's a big issue. Especially as much of the recovery is people consuming again, the hike in VAT to pay for this in such a short time will break many people, we're already having people who are choosing between heating this winter and food.

This is again why the EU needs to get a grip on the bigger picture- If they want the UK to pull up France and an ailing Germany, that's fine, that's us doing our part in the Eurozone (Though they must bear in mind, unlike those two states, the UK is doing better off because we didn't have the issues with the Euro... perhaps everyone should switch to the pound? - That's actually a serious suggestion too, though i feel the same thing would happen due to the economic disparity between EU members at it's most basic.)

But the point is, if the EU wishes to get more involved in state government, go down that federal route. It's got to give a damn about more than figures and trying to prop up it's ailing economy. It's the people it has a duty to- the UK can pay indeed, but there's better way's than slaughtering struggling people (A big one would be a more realistic and sensible time scale... also sort out France with it's arguably valid claims to not take on the EU budget). There needs to be some serious talks and serious reform (For starters openess about how the figures have been arrived at for the black market 'contributions' - so stupid).

I personally feel the EU is potentially a very good body to belong to- especially if the Free trade deal with the US get's signed (Predicted an extra 10 billion boost to the UK's economy alone and free access to an incredibly large market- also it'll do well in driving prices down here as suddenly our big companies will have to compete with the US- i'm thinking Tesco, Asda and co against Walmart- though Aldi and Lidil are doing this already to some extent).

Their is 120 billion pounds worth of tax avoidance in the #UK, most by Tory supporters (via donations to the party) Get it off them. Seriously. Get all 120 billion off them, with midnight raids and armed police if necessary.

Why don't we see any form of direct Democracy in the EU?

Because the member states would not put up with it. Whether the parliament should have more power is a different issue, but the EU triggering referendums in member states? That is never going to happen

[Mementomoridc]

So if I am getting this right, the EU is now asking for more cash or giving cash back to it's members based on sanctimonious crap that is not even backed by real numbers? You guys are so trying to top the US for stupidity lol.

[Dante Von Hespburg]

I genuinely can't believe this. It's these sorts of things that UKIP and the growing anti-Eu movement within the UK will jump on, If the EU is so keen to keep it's 2nd/3rd top economy then this really isn't the way to go about it. Punishing members for recovering better than others or indeed even just faster seems like economic stupidity at it's height. I just don't understand Brussels thought process behind this- beyond perhaps a desperation to further prop up the Euro-zone now France is economically going down the pan and refusing to implement EU budgets, along with a Germany that's starting to look shaky after propping up most of the Eurozone.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Denny in sentiments there

[Sphere]

I genuinely can't believe this. It's these sorts of things that UKIP and the growing anti-Eu movement within the UK will jump on, If the EU is so keen to keep it's 2nd/3rd top economy then this really isn't the way to go about it. Punishing members for recovering better than others or indeed even just faster seems like economic stupidity at it's height. I just don't understand Brussels thought process behind this- beyond perhaps a desperation to further prop up the Euro-zone now France is economically going down the pan and refusing to implement EU budgets, along with a Germany that's starting to look shaky after propping up most of the Eurozone.

Having your contribution to the EU budget being based on the size of your GDP seems like the most logical way to go about it.

[Dante Von Hespburg]

Having your contribution to the EU budget being based on the size of your GDP seems like the most logical way to go about it.

Except when we look at the GDP's my friend...their not going by it particularity:

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i...s+france+vs+UK

"The UK should also narrow the GDP gap with Germany over time, although this is projected to be driven mostly by the UK's more favourable demographics, with a less rapidly ageing population and strong labour force participation rates."

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...-global-a-list

So why the heck are Germany and France getting money back, while we're paying more?

Also i'd love to know how the heck they pulled that figure out of there arses. As of yet their rather reluctant to go into how they pieced it together beyond 'we say so'.

Especially too as for some reason we're now factoring in items Illegal in the UK.

[Pielstick]

UKIP just won the Rochester and Strood by-election.

Crack on Brussels, crack on

[Denny Crane!]

UKIP just won the Rochester and Strood by-election.

Crack on Brussels, crack on

Your really getting into UKIP right mate