[SUBMOD] Supply System (Alpha)

[Phalangitis]

Cheers everyone,
As you know we are constantly trying to make Rome2 campaign a more deep and strategic experience.
With that in mind there is an effort to simulate supply lines in Rome 2.We have figured out a way to achieve this but it needs some playtesting and balancing.I personally think this system gives more depth and interest to campaign but unfortunately I cannot find the free time needed and I can only play 10 turns per day roughly.This is not as much game time to reach later turns but till now I am enjoying my campaign a lot.
Hopefully in about 12-24 hours I will prepare a standalone version and upload it to workshop so anyone can try it even if you are not playing R2TR.I will also upload here the link when it is ready as well as a detailed post with what this sytem does.
I will also be checking this thread and overseeing this project so if you have any problems or suggestions will try to balance it and make it ready to be incorporated in official R2TR.So in that way you are co-contributors to this effort.
Thanks in advance for your participation.
R2TR compatible version for alpha testing is this one http://www.mediafire.com/download/0y..._0_supply.pack
There is also below a workshop linh for testing another version that does not rquire R2TR

[Maberous]

I will look into it. I hope you have found a way to make things interesting without braking the fun part. I've seen some attrition/supply-lines on mods and unfortunetly most of them made the game just dumb and took the focus on the big picture to micromanaging and strategy map nitpicking.

[Phalangitis]

I am very much intrigued to tell you about it but i will withhold myself until the upload. ..

[Maberous]

Don't get me wrong, I have faith on you and the team! I am anxious to test it.

[Phalangitis]

Ok ready!! http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...08&searchtext=
IMPORTANT NOTICE this version is for testing without R2TR.If you want to test this system with R2TR i will very soon provide an off steam link in the end of this pos..

The descreption is as follows..

This mod will soon be incorporated to R2TR mod.This is a standalone version slightly different from the R2TR version.The point of this mod existance is to give to players who dont want to participate to major overhauls like R2TR the chance to see some of the work is beeing done in such teams and to enjoy mabey a more challenging gameplay..

WHAT THIS MOD DOES

One of the things i deeply desired to have in this game was some sort of supply lines for the troops.Supply was extreamly important from ancient times and still is today.This mod tries to simulate this.How?

First of all the default stance is left as it was but I just lowered quite a bit the movement range to strengthen the importance of supplied stance and to show the slowing down for search of supplies from nearby areas.So the default stance represents the "find your own means of survival" many ancient armies used those times..In this stance army does not consume food BUT moves slowly and has penalties to morale,defence and attack.

Secondly forced march is in fact removed.It is still ingame but gives 0 movement points so AI does not uses it.

The raid stance is now raiding-campaigning stance.In this stance the army is thought as supplied and ready for campaign.
If in your territory : Pros 1) armies have a lower upkeep (you gain money).This represents the local economic boost by purchasing food and equipment from the local stores something historical.Local traders always followed armies to gain from this interaction.
Cons 1) there is a small PO penalty (if you want PO boost you should put the army inside a city.There the city takes care of the army removing any food penalty but you will loose also the positive economic effect from individual interaction with local traders since the city with public expenses takes care of the armies maintenance).
If in enemy territory the army will raid , put economic growth of enemy territory to a stop ,reduce slave population (simulating releasing slaves or the of escaping slaves to you hoping for freedom) and increase slave capturing after a successful battle.(fits well with my slave mod..)
General effects of raid stance 1) The army moves further (as supplied)
30% more for all ,25% for Greeks (slower havier armies), 40% Romans and 70% nomads (cavalry).(here i must add that barbarian default stance also has reduced movement penalty compared to other civilizations to represent their cavalry and affinity to cold climates).
2)It gets 20% bonus to morale,attack and defense
3) Romans get a Public order bonus when on capaign (Romans loooved conquests..)
4) it consumes food
-2 per province you own a region (Warning not entire province.If you have one region in one province and one in another this counts as 2).
Barbarians-Nomads they get a supply penalty of -1 FPP (food per province)
Greeks -3 FPP (slow moving – low on manpower-need people for harvesting)
Seleucids -3 FPP (huge armies plus elephants and horses)
Patrol-supplying stance for navies gives +2 FPP for all and +3FPP for Greek navies .
Now this is the juicy part..
As you may notice in vanilla there is a cap of 16 armies max.So if you do the math if you have 16 armies you would consume 32 Food PP in average !!! (imagine if you have 10 provinces. You would need 320 food!!!) Of course this feature if it was left like that is game breaking..But it isn’t left like that.
16 armies x 2 food PP average =32 food PP max.This is the max FPP you need to keep all armies supplied.
So you gain food PP from various sources you just need to plan ahead.

Navies 8 x 2 = 16 food pp they produce
Imperium.You gain 1pp per level (8 levels=8 food PP)(that way the player is forced to conquer to gain additional supplies)
Edicts from bread and games you gain 1 foodPP (From now on FPP) 5 edicts =5FPP
Seasons.You gain depending if it is summer 4-5 FPP or you loose on witer -2 to -5 FPP (so it is better to campaign in summers ).Speaking of seasons I also added some attrition according to weather.Extream summer or dry summer cause attrition while winter causes small attrition and harsh winter bigger attrition.
Certain regions. There are 5 regions as adviced by R2TR historian expert Mausolos of Caria that give 1FPP each (Crimea,Memphis,Carthage,Hatra Mesopotamia,and one next to Massalia Tolosa region)
Buildings.All level 5 (unique) building.This is 2-4FPP in average per civilization
Politic power.you gain up to 3fpp for max or loose 3fpp for min power.


If you do the sum all FPP are 50 (more than 32 which is required) Plus you get the food production of farms etc..
So you now can withstand the huge food needed for a supplied army as long as you plan ahead..

When this mod is incorporated In R2TR will be different as to fit with that overhaul.Many features will be changed,added or removed.

Cheers and thanks to all who bother to rate.

SPECIAL THANKS TO R2TR TEAM not because i am a proud member of it but because it does not think narrow minded permitting this mod to be used even from people that have not subscribed to our mod.

Known issue
I havent written a description of the stances yet.So patrol for greek navies and raiding is unnamed.Will fix it later sorry for this inconvenience..

R2TR friendly version.
Off steam link http://www.mediafire.com/download/0y..._0_supply.pack

[Khamac]

In history, there is a fact that some lonely army in raid stance move fast, bring minimum food to the next target to raid food and move on => they didn't need supply, only used enemy food. And because of no supply burden, they moved very fast.

[Phalangitis]

i dissagree.An army without proper supply could function the way you describe for a very limited time and only in a dens populated area and with minor to none ability to guard itself.If in prolonged unsupplied status the armies digenerated..Imagine that an army in full function could cover 30 km a day.In Xenophons march of 10,000 there were times that the army indeed functioned as you described.Inside wealthy and low in defence areas but when they were on Armenia for example or when the mercenaries where left without any food resources they could hardly march more than 5km neat distance.They had to pillage nearby settlements if any, enslave for money , gather food take care of wounded guard transport wagons back to the main camp and so many other tasks.Also they needed to gather supplies in big numbers.It is written somewhere that for 3 days time they needed 5.000 litters of grain 100 sheep and 20 cows or something close to that i can check it out for details if you like..So even in rich areas they could not stay forever.The effective area was roughly 20km or so.Exception to this are nomadic armies but for this reason i gave them not only extream bonuses to movement in raid but also in default stance.Finally this is the best i could do given the game mechanics..

[Khamac]

that is the way mongol conquer the world, move fast, sacking, raiding and burning all to ashes.

[Khamac]

I think for nomad and barbarian in raiding stance should lower food consume to 0 in enemies territories, in his own territories consume more (destroy more than build or food collecting) to raise moral and attack bonus. While civilization culture have other counter stance is civil support if they combat against barbarians and nomad in raiding stance to raise moral and attack bonus (general skill unlock or special traits only)

[Phalangitis]

that is the way mongol conquer the world, move fast, sacking, raiding and burning all to ashes.

As i said you are right on nomad tribes.For nomads these stuff are already there.They get +25% movement in defaul (unsupplied stance) +70% vs 25% of Greeks for example more movement when raiding, enslave more, loot more and consume 3 times less food compaired to Greeks and 2 times less food compared to other civilizations.
(By the way Mongols appeared a lot later - roughly half a century later- than the games time so also the tactics and the means where different then)

[Phalangitis]

Guys one of the reasons we uploaded the supply lines as standalone was to get some feedback from you as to how you found its use in your campaigns..
Any comments are extreamly welcome and valuable.
Thanks

[Maberous]

Sorry, I have been too busy to play (anything) past days. I will try to arrange time tomorrow and give my feedback.

[Maberous]

Ok, tried it for 10+ turns and so far I see where you are going. I was bit wondered about the food, as RTR already takes a toll on you food supply. Couple observations on this early stage:

1. Enemies DO use forced march stance for some reason, just managed to ambush one
2. I understand the "winter attrition", but I honestly think it's just an nuisuance as it is, at least on this early stage. Going from +40 to -20 on food every other turn is not realistic imo. Perhaps it's broken? Perhaps random events that occur, as you said about harsh summers and cold winters. Don't know if you can make those events local, so army campaining far north could feel the effects of harsh winter, but not the one in northern africa?

In all, I can see the potential. There just needs to be good description in the start (event screen) and on the stances when hoovering the ponter above to see how they really affect the army. Will have to see how it works on the later stage of the campaing.

P.S. I was bit confused about this mods installation. I tought you said it's stand alone, but when using only this, it just started the vanilla without RTR. So I used it with RTR. Am I right, or did I brake it?

[Phalangitis]

Strange i never faced any of these sissues you are reporting..I used this mod in two forms.The one i uploaded on steam (the standalone) without r2tr and one other specialy made for r2tr (havent upload that one.This version is for inside testing only).There cannot be standalone and r2tr compatible at the same time because r2tr uses certain ideas that cannot be in a standalone version.Mabey these strange issues you experienced was because you used it with r2tr.Will upload the r2tr friendly version link to try it plus some explanations..

[Phalangitis]

R2TR friendly version (removed it because of a mistake will reupload very soon.)
This is an off steam link because i dont want to fill workshop with versions of supply mod.I hope you know where to place the file after downloading.If you dont c/programm files(x86)/steam/steamApps/common/Total war Rome 2/data.
Drop it there and click on it in mod manager.Winter is supposed to give different effects on harsh climates.
Which faction did you choose? you continued a previously saved game ? or started a new one?
Also keep in mind that food is no longer food - food.It is food and supply capability.So during winter time campaigning is much harder.BUT i think those issues are because r2tr uses different effect structure.With the link above you should have normalized game play.Finaly r2tr is 2 tpy and this mod gets its full potential as in 4tpy.We will have such a version soon.
EDIT i have to go to bed but will follow your observations and post any solutions or fixes from tomorrow again.Cheers and thanks for the feedback

[Maberous]

Well, that might explain it! so I just failed on it, as I feared.

I started a new game with rome(most familiar with). I will start a new game tomorrow, now as inteded hopefully. do you prefer R2TR or vanilla version to be tested?

[Phalangitis]

both if you like or have the time.Mabey you could notice some differences that can help.Personaly i prefer the vanilla version till now but with the fixes and new balancing coming the r2tr version will be better soon.

[Maberous]

As I said, I understand the winter campaing-thing, but as you said it feels bit wierd on 2tpy. Perhaps 4tpy will give it more meaning, 6tpy would be best I think as you would have two winter turns.

[LestaT]

As I said, I understand the winter campaing-thing, but as you said it feels bit wierd on 2tpy. Perhaps 4tpy will give it more meaning, 6tpy would be best I think as you would have two winter turns.

The best turns are either 2, 4, 12 and 24 if you want the UI to show correctly.

[La Tene]

I think I like this idea but I'm pretty confused when reading the description. I've just loaded in to my R2TR lusitani campaign with the steam supply line pak enabled and my food is now -16 - I tried raiding in enemy territory but I don't quite understand the raid effects, and I didn't recover my food by raiding either. Also noticed that my armies are not starving even though I'm at -16 food. I can try testing more but I'm rather confused at this point.