Sweden detect foreign presence in it's archipelago. Mobilise it's largest submarine hunt since the cold war

[trance]

Just a note to all- Adar's post at #5 is actually the OP- I alas can't seem to change about post order, so my apologies Adar! But everyone new to this should start there- Dante

Swedish military is responding to activity in the stockholm archipelago. Officials are very reticent about the nature of the threat, but given Sweden's strategical positioning there is no doubt about who's behind it.

you Russia.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

Swedish military is responding to activity in the stockholm archipelago. Officials are very reticent about the nature of the threat, but given Sweden's strategical positioning there is no doubt about who's behind it.

you Russia.

Can you source that, I don't doubt just what to know.

[Gertrudius]

Can you source that, I don't doubt just what to know.

Here.

Edit: I don't know anything about Russia-Sweden relations, but it wouldn't be out of character for the Russians to be involved with this kind of underwater probing. My father, who is a US Navy reservist with an ASW unit, was called up for a couple of months last fall/winter in response to similar activity.

[Holger Danske]

Swedish military is responding to activity in the stockholm archipelago. Officials are very reticent about the nature of the threat, but given Sweden's strategical positioning there is no doubt about who's behind it.

you Russia.

Well, it wouldn't be the first time Russia have done it. But if they screw up like they did in 1981, I hope you guys should gives them the middle finger and permanently impound it.

[hellheaven1987]

Meanwhile two "Russian" spies are arrested in Poland.

[UselessPoster]

I shall watch a good submarine film while reading through the entire thread how exciting!.

[DarthShizNit]

So 200 men, I didn't know Sweden had the budget to mobilize 200 men ;D

[trance]

So 200 men, I didn't know Sweden had the budget to mobilize 200 men ;D

It's more than 200 men according to the Commander, he denounced media for stating he had said there were 200.

This is probably the biggest shocker of this story .

[Holger Danske]

So, if it's a submarine my bet would either be the Lada-class or a Kilo class, seeing as both might be serving in the Baltic Fleet.

[Adar]

So, if it's a submarine my bet would either be the Lada-class or a Kilo class, seeing as both might be serving in the Baltic Fleet.

A morse likely alternative is the Trion Nn which is built for this kind of spying mission.

[Stavroforos]

Would be funny if it was a NATO sub, just for lulz.

[Dante Von Hespburg]

Would be funny if it was a NATO sub, just for lulz.

I genuinely think it's a British submarine, we have a habit of our nuclear subs getting lost in the oddest of places...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...lands-11605365

But on a more serious (ish) response to this, there is precedent of the UK/US messing around with Sweden like this during the cold war:

http://www.fredsakademiet.dk/library/tunander.pdf

Of course it's taken with a pinch of salt as all 'formerly classified' things should be, but the admittance of Sir Keith Speed lends a lot of weight (and it seems politically like quite a good move).

Of course this was in the Cold War and by no means am i advocating that NATO would be doing it now, but it does rather raise the point that it's not necessarily Russia who does these sorts of things.

[Nikitn]

Would be funny if it was a NATO sub, just for lulz.

Would be even more hilarious if there was no submarine at all.

[Stavroforos]

Would be even more hilarious if there was no submarine at all.

It will be a Russian submarine, even if it wasn't. Swedes need to vent their Russophobia somewhere.

[Stavros_Kalmpou]

It will be a Russian submarine, even if it wasn't. Swedes need to vent their Russophobia somewhere.

of course! they should be taught the full truth! (Putin funded Osama bin Laden, Russian mafia was behind 11/9 and some more stupid examples some Russophobians make)

[Aanker]

It will be a Russian submarine, even if it wasn't. Swedes need to vent their Russophobia somewhere.

Oh please. I have had Russian classmates, and Russian friends. If there were any Russian citizens in my university class I would probably drink and feast as merrily with them as I do with others. But the problem isn't Russians or the idea of Russia itself. It is the revanchist and aggressive militarist leadership of Russia that is pursuing an assertive foreign 'diplomacy' in the Baltic Sea region and elsewhere. And that is something that deserves the figurative middle finger of opposition, or else it will just continue.

***

The Swedish Defence Ministry revealed one of three images which it says has served as the basis of validating that 'underwater activity' is indeed going on in thewaters outside Stockholm. The picture below should be taken in context as alone it is difficult to say what the observed object is. A witness reported seeing an object, at which point he or she took this image. The object then submerged and disappeared from view. This observation was made sunday afternoon.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[4th Regiment]

But the problem isn't Russians or the idea of Russia itself. It is the revanchist and aggressive militarist leadership of Russia that is pursuing an assertive foreign 'diplomacy' in the Baltic Sea region and elsewhere. And that is something that deserves the figurative middle finger of opposition, or else it will just continue....

Ah those evil Russians, they been overthrowing governments and bombing across globe...And their aggressive militarist military budget is bigger than next 10 biggest budgets in the world, plus together with their allies they have 90% of all military spendings in the world...Very scary indeed

...These events show that, indeed, Russia is actively acting as an agressor again. This has been neglected by Swedish politicians for a long time, until the Ukrainian crisis. The recent events (of which this could easily be said to be the most exposed and significant) have finally put the nail in the coffin of the idea that Russia really is an amicable neighbour.

Evil deeds...overthrowing Mexican and Canadian governments, putting there fascist backed pro-Russian American hating puppets, with progress of putting their troops and rockets on US borders there in very near future. And everything after they have expanded their military alliance and put basses all around EU and US..

....Seeing as Russia has no qualms about attacking non-NATO members, Sweden's position on NATO membership could/should change; not only to further surround Russia strategically but also to avoid another Ukraine scenario where an 'independent' state was caught with its pants down. Also, if we're going to rearm with the intent of fighting back, we might as well realize that Russia is going to be the one we will fight against and join a bloc of likeminded nations to stand any chance in that event.

Yes indeed, they bombed and attacked non-NATO independent' states caught with their pants down,from Iraq, Libia, Syria, Serbia, Latin America, etc putting their evil basses across Africa recently...


This is great treat to Sweden...Sweden must do something...Even evil USSR had no intentions to invade proud Sweden, but those new evil Putinist Russians are very close to do so..They mist be stopped..

[Knight of Heaven]

you Russia.

Easy tiger, give them a break, Russian military is blameless, they just have a terrible sense of direction!! they have a tendency of being lost in foreign territory... it happens accidentally of course.


Maybe they have a new kursk on their hands... who knows.

I shall watch a good submarine film while reading through the entire thread how exciting!.

[Adar]

An update to the situation.

According to leaks the information coinciding with the civilian report was a signal sent from the search area on a Russian emergency radio channel on Thursday. This also explain how the Swedish military could respond so quickly to the civilian report as the naval units probably maintained an increased level of readiness.

Support for the maritime mission is then given from the amphibious battalion which is located nearby and local Homeguard units which are kept on a constant level of readiness (Sweden can mobilize ~20 000 members of the Homeguard within 24 hours). The Homeguard is insufficient for frontline combat but is excellent for missions where the mission is to keep surveillance over a large area to prevent enemy infiltrators or small elite units from using the area.

Furthermore the Russian owned but Liberian flagged oil tanker NS Concord have been staying just outside Swedish territorial waters since the 15th October despite officially being on route to Denmark. One of the theories is that NS Concord operate as a mother vessel for a small submarine such as the Triton NN which have infiltrated the Swedish territorial waters but which accidentally revealed itself due to some kind of malfunction.

http://www.fredsakademiet.dk/library/tunander.pdf

Of course it's taken with a pinch of salt as all 'formerly classified' things should be, but the admittance of Sir Keith Speed lends a lot of weight (and it seems politically like quite a good move).

Of course this was in the Cold War and by no means am i advocating that NATO would be doing it now, but it does rather raise the point that it's not necessarily Russia who does these sorts of things.

I would take that guy with a whole oil tanked filled of salt.

I suggest cross-verifying that document with this article. I am not familiar with that article but I know from other articles that Tunander believe that high military officials in Sweden invited/allowed NATO submarines in Swedish waters which was then used for "Exercises" that then caused the stories about Soviet submarines in Swedish waters.

There are two problems with that:

1) The timing is wrong. Sweden had a large cooperation with America managed by the Social democrats up to 1976. These collaboration was so secret that Olof Palme (ie the one criticising the Hanoi bombins) did not inform the right wing government about this collaboration. We did put out a huge amount of firepower into the archipelago during the submarine hunts and accidentally blowing up a NATO submarine in the Swedish archipelago would have been a major international scandal and career killer for anyone involved.

2) We know that the Soviet Union ahd excellent maps of the Swedish archipelago that would have required significant underwater measurements (news piece in Swedish about it).

For more examples I also recommend this article which should work well with Google translate.

Edit: For Swedish speakers I also recommend this video demonstrating the skills of Swedish investigative journalism: http://www.expressen.se/tv/nyheter/i...-i-sokomradet/ . They seriously say "We went to this old coast guard boat with divers. We asked them but they said that they are not a part of the Swedish military. But right next to it is a Stridsbåt 90H which is used for surveillance".

I am just wondering if they expected an answer along the lines of "Technically we are not a part of the Swedish military, we are a covert operations group working for the Swedish government" or "Россия ? Никогда не слышал о том, что , мы на каникулах . От ... где ".

[Aanker]

I wonder what kind and level of deranged negligence would be required to now not support an increased Swedish defense budget. At the very least. Personally I think it's obvious that more money for the military just won't be enough and NATO membership should be sought. Together with Finland, if possible.

Sweden has been so completely blinded by its faux neutrality obsession that the one-sidedness of aggression in the Baltic has escaped not just politicians but also 'ordinary people'. Hopefully events like these will be a wakeup call that Russia just isn't all cute and cuddly. That Russia is the antagonist of Sweden in the Baltic and that we can't just surrender our territorial integrity to have this oppressive opponent leave us be with our ecological bread, coffee and morning newspapers. I'm sick and tired of telling people that stuff like this would and will happen, only to be met with 'well the U.S. is just as bad' or 'well I can understand Russia'. The more you give in, the more Putin takes.

Just today one of Sweden's larger national newspapers interviewed a local, who basically commented the events thus: 'why does our government waste money playing hide and seek? That's what you did in daycare. There's an ebola epidemic going on...'

Fortunately the 'pacifist' parties have all but given up in government. But will it be enough?