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Thread: New Features - Campaign Tips

  1. #1

    Icon3 New Features - Campaign Tips


    Now that many ideas have been finalized and are being implemented, I and other members of R2TR will post here some of the new features. That way, players will know their possibilities and will receive some tested campaign tips and explanations. Unfortunately I cannot keep my promise to OvO for many screenshots, due to having many issues on my PC which are making the loading of the game a torture. I am planning to upgrade soon though and hopefully will include more pics as time goes by..

    PART A: ECONOMY

    A)Buildings
    First of all, subsistence income from cities was removed. No money out of thin air. Now money is produced by investments like farms, industries, cattle and various other resource producing towns.These goods go to the cities and there the profit is multiplied.The role of the city building mainly is to multiply the profit of goods coming from the various regions of the province.The cities alone will find it very hard to survive without a network of incoming goods.They only produce some specific industrial goods such as jewellery, and of course have ports with their trade. Both in cities and their provincial towns, the same line of buildings must be constructed. If you want farms, then in cities you must build grain traders to increase their profit not a tavern that promotes cattle selling or if you already have a mine, it is much preferred to build a Jewellery building which multiplies the mining profits and give some income. In a very rich region, it might be more profitable to build a Mint which instead of raw income of the jewellery raises tax interest from all sources and has the same mining bonus. These are just a few examples. So the economic system starts slow and expands exponentially but needs cooperation within a region. You must choose a focus from the start: if you want an industrial, trading ,mining, or specialized in army replenishment or food producing-agricultural region. Following these rules the path to successful economic growth is open. While all ports produce trade income, trade ports provide more of that. Besides this, there are faction specific resource specializations. Easterners trade silk with more profit, Greeks and Romans wine and olive oil, Barbarians horses etc. These are only a few examples. Every Nation has a unique feel and if you open the building effects table you will see what I mean.
    B)War
    Being in enemy lands now costs money. Sieges are particularly expensive and you usually will need a supportive raiding army to finance the main army's march.
    C)Fleets
    Not only they completely remove piracy when on patrol (piracy in game's time was not effective as on 17th century. Pirates could not stand before professional navies) but they add to trade income quite extensively.
    D)Slaves
    We have incorporated the CA's mods awards winner of most innovative mod for 2014: the "sell your slaves" mod, and in fact slightly improved on it. For those who do not know it, it permits the player to issue an edict called 'sell slaves' so you can sell your slave population improving for a short term but greatly your income. Also, when in hostile territories and while raiding, armies tend to capture more slaves after a winning battle so slave selling can be so profitable that you can base your economy only on this feature (as was historically happening in many cases). I will get on to that in greater detail when presenting you the army stances changes.
    E)Regions
    Specific regions, for example straits like the Bosporous and others, produce extra trade income as tariffs. The more you trade the more you profit. So now there is a reason to expand in certain directions and/or to capture both ends of some straits. We also incorporated the "Incense road". These roads are certain regions one next to another that produce income in the form of trade tariffs. If you control all regions, more income will be earned. This idea came from the head of our History Department, Mausolos of Caria.


    PART B : FOOD
    FOOD CONSUMPTION

    Normal cities consume (L1,2,3,4) food (2,4,8,16 food)
    Normal towns consume (L1,2,3,4) food (0,1,4,8)
    Trade cities and towns and farm towns consume less than normal while military cities and towns consume more.
    Civil cities and towns are a special case. Civil towns consume more than normal (representing higher populations) while civil towns less (representing organization and order).
    Trade ports produce food (less than fisheries).
    I am not getting into depth analysis because right now the team tests an entirely new mechanism that will give more strategic depth to campaigns. This has to do with army supply. If this project proves to be balanced and stable many changes are coming on how to manage your regions food wise.

    TIPS
    In some cases (like Macedon) civilizations may start "overstretched" with a negative food balance. This is not an overlook; it has been done on purpose. It makes every nation unique with its own pros and cons. For example as Seleucid you start with much more money and food but are surrounded by enemies.. In the Macedonian case I think the negative food is -5 or something. This happens because Macedon starts owning 2 capital cities and many military buildings. If you exempt from tax the 2 regions food goes from – to 0. Unfortunately your income goes to -450 gold per turn. You start with 4000 gold. This is enough to replace the military port with a trade port that gives 1000 gold per turn and produces 4 food. You can go for an early war, your money is enough to support a quick war. Or finally, you can disband your navy to earn from its upkeep. Alternatively, you can have trade agreements and put navy in patrol mode. While in patrol mod navies multiply the profits from trade representing, merchant support and pirate fighting, plus they have a very reduced upkeep cost. Generally, don’t be afraid to make some sacrifices at start. Athens may need to disband its starting Navy or Others to destroy a building that consumes food. You can always build it back..
    In any case stay tuned for BIG changes in this area.

    PART C : PUBLIC ORDER

    PUBLIC ORDER CHANGES

    OVERPOPULATION RELATED

    Normal Cities (L1,2,3,4) have a penalty (-1,-3,-5,-8).
    Normal Towns (L1,2,3,4) have a penalty (0,0,-1,-2).
    Garrison cities and towns have less penalties.
    Eastern cities and towns also less (easterners used to harsh treatment from rulers).
    Barbarian big cities little more penalties (-10).
    Roman civil cities and towns less penalties (law and order).
    Greek olive towns less (sacred trees olives).

    BATTLE RELATED

    The only way we could link battle outcomes to PO was linking them to generals. In vanilla, when you win a battle there is a chance to get the good attacker trait. Now we scripted lua triggers and if battles won are > than battle fought * 0,75 then the character gets the good attacker trait always. If you loose then you loose the trait and if battles won < than battles fought * 0,6 then you get the bad attacker trait. The same goes for sea, defence and sieges. If you make the math: if you have 2 defeats you need more than 6 wins to erase the bad attacker trait. Good fame comes hard while bad easily. When you get good fame PO bonuses come. When you got bad fame penalties... Also there are some boosts to morale of your troops if you are a good general.

    CONQUEST RELATED

    On top of PO penalties we reworked the culture mechanism relations. There are close and distant relations among cultures so if you are German and conquer Celts you don't get as much unrest as if you enter a Roman town.
    Maybe we will make this part more strict in the future giving more penalties.

    REGION RELATED

    As Mausolos pointed out we agreed to certain provinces who historically did not accept foreign rules easily. Judea, Sodgiana, Aria are some of these regions. There there are even more penalties to foreign cultures.

    CHARACTER RELATED

    There are some negative traits more easily acquired like the xenophobe trait. Most people of their time where not accepting globalization and where stuck to their traditions and small National boundaries. Yet they accepted religions better than nowadays, but the greatest problem of Alexander for example was to make Greeks stop seeing Easterners as barbarians. These things may increase cultural unrest.

    TIPS

    Especially if we increase cultures penalties you may want to advance slowly. If you conquer a culturally hostile region you may face 1 or 2 rebellions before things calm down (this currently is not so frequent). It is wise to maybe culturally prepair the region with dignitaries or other agents that promote culture spread or hurry to spread your culture after occupation with appropriate buildings and other actions.
    Keep your armies out of the cities and in fortified stance and lower taxes if you must.
    Last edited by Maurits; October 18, 2014 at 07:02 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: New Features - Campaign Tips

    TIPS on Economy
    The general idea and possibilities are mentioned above if you start in a region with many capital cities and no many towns, then you are for one rough start. You need to expand quickly or build some industry self sustaining buildings or ports to handle the initial games economic challenge. Also, tax profits have been lowered to make your life even more difficult but if you can handle PO issues you can of course try to raise taxes. Generally successful lightning fast wars are a quick way to get out of the bumpy start.(Don't forget that armies in enemy territories cost money so act fast).
    Me and all team are happy to answer any question you might have.
    Last edited by Finn; October 15, 2014 at 07:51 AM.

  3. #3
    Kreissig's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: New Features - Campaign Tips

    Excellent historical work and implementation. How do I donate to help you get a new system Phalangitis?

  4. #4

    Default Re: New Features - Campaign Tips

    lol thanks for the offer mate.In modding there's is a philosophy free from money dependence ( despite the fact that my post is about economy).I am hoping to enter 21 century soon enough. mabey by Christmas I will make me a surprise gift..

  5. #5

    Default Re: New Features - Campaign Tips

    We are getting some requests for more detailed explanations.I wish i could write down all changes and their meaning but honestly that would make a text of many many pages casuing more confusion than help.One thing i can guarantee you that every single value is a poroduct of either carefull thought or it is textbook based and every playthrough is going to be different depending on which civilization you choose.
    A small example.Lead for non Romans is a resourse of no profound value.For Romans it gives gread bonuses to industry to resemble the fact that evely plumbing work in Roman cities demanded lead.Amber is much more profitable for barbarians resembling amber trade routs and cattle give more wealth to Nomads as their economy was based on movable objects while grain fields less for the same reason.Roman and Greek ports are more profitable than barbarian ones and the list goes on and on.Try to think like the civilization you play and the game will reward you.
    Cheers.
    (coming up soon food changes..)

  6. #6
    Maurits's Avatar ЯTR
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    Default Re: New Features - Campaign Tips

    I edited your post to make it a bit clearer and understandable Phal. Keep up the good work

    RTR: Imperium Surrectum Team Member
    My AAR: For Glory and the Republic!

    Proud to be patronized by ybbon66

  7. #7

    Default Re: New Features - Campaign Tips

    Wow now i sound like a literature Nobel prize winner..thanks guys..

  8. #8

    Default Re: New Features - Campaign Tips

    This economic disparity is based on technology?

  9. #9

    Default Re: New Features - Campaign Tips

    Not yet but soon another tech overhaul is going to be made

  10. #10
    LestaT's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: New Features - Campaign Tips

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreissig View Post
    Excellent historical work and implementation. How do I donate to help you get a new system Phalangitis?
    You can donate ideas and also time to play and test these features even more.
    Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth. - Marcus Aurelius


  11. #11
    Maurits's Avatar ЯTR
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    Default Re: New Features - Campaign Tips

    I merged your posts to keep everything visible in the first post Phal

    RTR: Imperium Surrectum Team Member
    My AAR: For Glory and the Republic!

    Proud to be patronized by ybbon66

  12. #12

    Default Re: New Features - Campaign Tips

    feel free to make whatever changes you think are nice..

  13. #13
    Mausolos of Caria's Avatar Royal Satrap
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    Default Re: New Features - Campaign Tips

    Maybe you could add some screenshots showcasing the changes?
    Last edited by Mausolos of Caria; October 18, 2014 at 09:54 AM.
    "Pompeius, after having finished the war against Mithridates, when he went to call at the house of Poseidonios, the famous teacher of philosophy, forbade the lictor to knock at the door, as was the usual custom, and he, to whom both the eastern and the western world had yielded submission, ordered the fasces to be lowered before the door of science."

    Pliny the Elder, Naturalis Historia, 7, 112

  14. #14

    Default Re: New Features - Campaign Tips

    i know OvO told me the same thing but what pic to upload for food consumption or public order ? a building with the values on it? i just dont know..

  15. #15

    Default Re: New Features - Campaign Tips

    I am not teasing you guys but following days many changes are coming into the mod.Keep an eye here for explanation and presentations.Of course they will need some time to be play tested but i am hopefull that these changes probably move the project forward..

  16. #16

    Default Re: New Features - Campaign Tips

    I am pleased to announce that a very interesting new manpower system is being tested by the team. initial tests are very promising but we will need much more private testing to do or a vast consesus among the team before a public beta open for public testing.
    few points. we have created several new effects not existing in vanilla. we can create dynamic unit caps to represent manpower.so a faction may start with 5 unit cap of hoplites for example and as you grow your cities this cap will get bigger allowing you to recruit more troops. also recruitment time may be altered a bit to make every unit count and its replacement a pain but these recruitment times will also be dynamical going up or down according to pkayers choise.resources can new pkay an impirtant role for example wood can increase caps for ships better than a pain city or a horse town will boost cavalry unit caps etc
    many surprises are beeing tested as assigning special effects to units directly making units have a role sometimes other than battle itself like scouting or support.
    stay tuned
    Last edited by Phalangitis; December 10, 2014 at 06:45 AM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: New Features - Campaign Tips

    I will try tonight to compose a lengthy (unfortunately for some who are bored to read) post on what changes have been made to building system.I will try not only to present each building by itself but compare each and every one of the same category so you would know what is the purpose or the function or the idea behind them.
    I must clarify that the system will not be implemented yet as it has only just created.We will move it to public beta first, gather input-readjust and then proceed.As you can understand your active and well intended critisism is needed and encouraged for this system to work as planned.
    Thanks.

  18. #18

    Default Re: New Features - Campaign Tips

    There are ready new units for Sparta,Macedon,Seleucia and Athens.We wait the new dlc to land because it may bring new visual goodies like new armors and stuff..After the new dlc on 16/12 we will incorporate those new visuals into our units and JaM out BAttle guy will incorporate the new units into the game.All this can be done pretty soon if all go smoothly.
    THere are few other projects under way also..Nearly finished is the new culture system,new manpower new seasons overhaul and other stiuff also.All these are in the final stages of development so stay tuned for many good stuff.
    After that we resume with other Greek factions as well..

    EDIT soon i will start to upload here new unit pics to see what we have been doing all this time

  19. #19

    Default Re: New Features - Campaign Tips

    Hi! I've got a poor understanding of the selected words below.
    B)War
    Being in enemy lands now costs money. Sieges are particularly expensive and you usually will need a supportive raiding army to finance the main army's march.
    I've sent my 2 initial armies to siege close enemy's town, both in raid stance. This action costed much and I knew it's OK. But how could the 2nd army help me to maintain this loss? It just ate more gold than earned. Is there smtn I dont get?

  20. #20

    Default Re: New Features - Campaign Tips

    I am not active in R2TR anymore but since i created this mechanic back when i was an active team member i should answer it.. (This is an early version of my mechanic though.I have created a much more sophisticated new versions but the new ones are not included in R2TR..sorry.)
    So to your case now..if you have 2 armies in foreign land then they draw money.Lets say -1000 for an example.If you place one in siege mode then you will have one in siege (-1500 as an example and one with -1000 = -2500).Now if the second army is in raiding stance then you will see that you reduce considerably the expenses of your faction since that army is self supplied and does not "draw" excessive money from your treasury.So from - 1000 will get to -200.So indirectly it permits you to reduce the sum of money you loose from the besieging army..
    I hope i explained that better this time..

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