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Thread: Russian soldiers got lost and accidentally established a spy base in Syria close to the Israeli border

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  1. #1
    Adar's Avatar Just doing it
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    Default Russian soldiers got lost and accidentally established a spy base in Syria close to the Israeli border



    Quote Originally Posted by The Daily beast
    Syrian rebels have overtaken a joint Russian-Syrian secret facility that they claim was a covert intelligence collection base. Opposition fighters say the post was used to snoop in on the communications of opposition groups -- and perhaps even the nearby Israelis.
    Free Syrian Army officials, U.S. officials, and independent experts told The Daily Beast that the evidence of Russian involvement in the facility, just a few miles from Syria’s border with Israel, if verified, would show a level of Russian involvement in the Syrian civil war that was not previously known. Free Syrian Army officials posted several videos on YouTube showing both the outside and the inside of the facility, which the FSA captured over the weekend during a battle near Al Harah, south of Damascus, next to the Golan Heights.
    The videos and accompanying photos show insignias representing a branch of Syrian intelligence and the Russian Osnaz GRU radio electronic intelligence agency. The FSA found photos and lists of senior Russian intelligence and military officials who visited the facility, pictures of Russian personnel running the base, and maps showing the location of Israeli military units. Israeli news reports earlier this year said the Russian government had upgraded an advanced surveillance and intelligence gathering station in that area which could snoop on Israel, large parts of Jordan, and western Iraq, potentially to warn Iran in advance of an Israeli strike. Initial reports said documents from the facility suggested the Russian equipment was used to spy on Israel, Saudi Arabia and Jordan.
    U.S. defense officials told The Daily Beast the photos of the Russian
    insignia first shared on blogs were legitimate. But that evidence, at the same time, may not necessarily mean the facility captured by the opposition was controlled by Russia’s military; it could just mean that Russians were working there, as advisors or partners to Syrian troops.
    Mark Galeotti, an expert on Russia’s military and intelligence services at New York University said the term “Osnaz” on the insignia just meant a special unit of any kind. “It’s the kind of unit that the Russians would have had there because Syria is not the easiest area to operate in, they are an element of the radio-technical intelligence boys who do this.”

    Firas Al Hawrani, the official spokesman for the FSA in southern Syria, told The Daily Beast Monday that FSA forces had seen about 15 Russian personnel operating in the Al Harah area before the FSA took the facility, but they left before the area fell out of regime control.

    “The Russians who were at the Al Harah mountain, the regime took them to Damascus by plane two weeks ago,” he said.

    Galeotti said these Russian advisers would specifically be working on intercepting radio communications of opposition figures. “They would be running an operation for detailed radio technical intelligence, we are not talking about intercepting telemetry and aircraft,” he said. “This is for eavesdropping on rebel radio communications. Cell communications are easier identified through other means. And this is also for identifying the presence of these units, which leads directly into targeting.”
    Unlike other cases I do not find this problematic. Russia have been very clear that they support the Assad regime and even if I prefer the Kurds and FSA over Assad it is hard to deny that the civil war have given room for IS/ISIS/ISIL/Terrorist-losers to create their despicable "state".

  2. #2
    Geronimo2006's Avatar TAR Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Russian soldiers got lost and accidentally established a spy base in Syria close to the Israeli border

    No. They were protecting it! And anyway they are 'volunteers' no doubt!
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    Poach's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Russian soldiers got lost and accidentally established a spy base in Syria close to the Israeli border

    Russia, a public ally of the Syrian Government, is involved in supporting the Syrian Government.

    Jesus Christ, how could they?!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Russian soldiers got lost and accidentally established a spy base in Syria close to the Israeli border

    What is the problem there are spy bases of USA in Iraq, Israel etc...
    common thing for a world power
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    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
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    Default Re: Russian soldiers got lost and accidentally established a spy base in Syria close to the Israeli border

    Quote Originally Posted by TWmodding View Post
    a world power
    LoL
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Russian soldiers got lost and accidentally established a spy base in Syria close to the Israeli border

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmouth View Post
    LoL
    They are a rold power, not a super power anymore, but no one with that large an arms industry, that much influence and that many nukes is anything but a world power.

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    Default Re: Russian soldiers got lost and accidentally established a spy base in Syria close to the Israeli border

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmouth View Post
    LoL
    Ah I forgot nukes are for display.
    There is a difference between world power and superpower who can defeat (occupy) almost anyone.

    UK, France and USA may not have spy bases in Syria but aleast agents lurking around.
    Last edited by Flavius Julius Nepos Augustus; October 10, 2014 at 04:10 AM.
    454-480 Western Roman Politics (Article)
    There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. - W. Shakespeare
    We (...) have converted the miracles of science into a chamber of horrors -R. Hull

    USA knew how to gain a victory, but not how to use it - F.J. Nepos
    You will be ruled by either a crown, a clown, or a crook, and democracy assures that you won't get the first one.



  8. #8
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    Default Re: Russian soldiers got lost and accidentally established a spy base in Syria close to the Israeli border

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmouth View Post
    LoL
    I think your top-down string pullers lol at your lol.

    Russia has allot of WP debit in having the second most amount of huge bombs after "the only indispensable on earth"(USA).

    Russia also has allot of WP credit in having 30% of global natural ressources.

    What exactly is it that discredits Russia as a WP when facing these two facts?
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

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    Dante Von Hespburg's Avatar Sloth's Inferno
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    Default Re: Russian soldiers got lost and accidentally established a spy base in Syria close to the Israeli border

    Quote Originally Posted by TWmodding View Post
    common thing for a world power
    Yeah...

    I'm actually going to mirror mrmouth here, but in a nicer manner .

    Russia...world power? wut?

    If we're going down that logic that means Germany, France, UK, India, Brazil, Belgium, Netherlands, Sweden, Norway etc are all world-powers.

    Of course if we're going to upgrade that slightly and talk about 'world powers' who have overseas bases- then we're looking at UK, France, Italy, Japan, India and Turkey.
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    Default Re: Russian soldiers got lost and accidentally established a spy base in Syria close to the Israeli border

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Von Hespburg View Post
    Of course if we're going to upgrade that slightly and talk about 'world powers' who have overseas bases- then we're looking at UK, France, Italy, Japan, India and Turkey.
    All those are world powers, Dante. Except maybe Italy, but on paper at least it has a strong military.

    In any case, I fail to see any issue here, but the story is interesting nonetheless.

  11. #11
    Sir Pignans's Avatar The bringer of cheese.
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    Default Re: Russian soldiers got lost and accidentally established a spy base in Syria close to the Israeli border

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Von Hespburg View Post
    Yeah...

    I'm actually going to mirror mrmouth here, but in a nicer manner .

    Russia...world power? wut?

    If we're going down that logic that means Germany, France, UK, India, Brazil, Belgium, Netherlands, Sweden, Norway etc are all world-powers.

    Of course if we're going to upgrade that slightly and talk about 'world powers' who have overseas bases- then we're looking at UK, France, Italy, Japan, India and Turkey.
    Russia can easily be considered a world power because they can piss off the entire western world, and honestly, not suffer that much in return (they still haven't been stopped). They can stop most attempts at international intervention in Syria, and are normally a big diplomatic block at the UN.

    Their security council veto alone, arguably, makes them a world power.

    Superpower? No, but to deny their status because you simply don't like them is a mistake in my view.
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    Dante Von Hespburg's Avatar Sloth's Inferno
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    Default Re: Russian soldiers got lost and accidentally established a spy base in Syria close to the Israeli border

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    All those are world powers, Dante. Except maybe Italy, but on paper at least it has a strong military.

    In any case, I fail to see any issue here, but the story is interesting nonetheless.
    That's a fair enough point i guess. Though i tend to think more in terms of a world power being something like the US (and possibly China if it gets to the heights many seem to predict) in terms of being able to exert power globally independently if they choose too (Instead of the many European nations, and Russia- who either can't deploy expeditionary power and influence anywhere on the globe and/or have to work with other powers).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Pignans View Post
    Russia can easily be considered a world power because they can piss off the entire western world, and honestly, not suffer that much in return (they still haven't been stopped). They can stop most attempts at international intervention in Syria, and are normally a big diplomatic block at the UN.

    Their security council veto alone, arguably, makes them a world power.

    Superpower? No, but to deny their status because you simply don't like them is a mistake in my view.
    Who said i didn't like Russia? That's a very strange thing to say.

    As i've pointed out to Stav, if your going by those as the definition of world power, then you'll concede that all or Europe +Turkey and India and co are world powers too? Which is fine.

    But in terms of your first point, that's a poor definition of trying to reconcile them to being a world power my friend. In which case again we bring 'world power' status down to the effects of a 'regional powers' domain- for instance Afghanistan areas controlled by the Taliban, Iran, Belarus, Argentina- all of these in one way or another fall under your definition of being able to 'piss off western state(s) and suffer only limited 'consequences'- so basically we're using 'World Power' as a standard term for a state that's at least half-functioning and can mess around with other states then? Which is fine i guess, though i'd more call them 'regional powers' since nearly every country in the globe (that's 2nd or 1st world) can mess around with others and influence other states internationally in some form now.

    In essence if we accept Russia as a world power, then we also accept most European states, BICS, Turkey, Iran, Israel (probably the closest to Russia- frequently exerts influence over the 'West' and gets away with doing much that the US doesn't sanction).

    Quote Originally Posted by justicar5 View Post
    They are a rold power, not a super power anymore, but no one with that large an arms industry, that much influence and that many nukes is anything but a world power.
    Again alongside my former statement- Israel too then.

    What i'm seeing here basically is 'World Power' is the new term of 'Regional powers' then? Again it's fine but slightly strange considering how many 'World Powers' that invites.
    Last edited by Dante Von Hespburg; October 10, 2014 at 03:36 AM.
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    Default Re: Russian soldiers got lost and accidentally established a spy base in Syria close to the Israeli border

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Von Hespburg View Post
    That's a fair enough point i guess. Though i tend to think more in terms of a world power being something like the US (and possibly China if it gets to the heights many seem to predict) in terms of being able to exert power globally independently if they choose too (Instead of the many European nations, and Russia- who either can't deploy expeditionary power and influence anywhere on the globe and/or have to work with other powers).
    The US is beyond a world power, it's a superpower or even a hyperpower, while those other states are second rate or third rate powers, but still influential in the world through economic and military power, as well as UNSC positions.

  14. #14
    Sir Pignans's Avatar The bringer of cheese.
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    Default Re: Russian soldiers got lost and accidentally established a spy base in Syria close to the Israeli border

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Von Hespburg View Post
    Who said i didn't like Russia? That's a very strange thing to say.
    It was more of a general statement that more applies to conversations I've had with people in real life, and does not really apply to you. Apologies for any offense caused.

    As i've pointed out to Stav, if your going by those as the definition of world power, then you'll concede that all or Europe +Turkey and India and co are world powers too? Which is fine.
    I would certainly state that Europe (not the individual states, with the exceptions perhaps of Germany/France/the UK)is a world power, almost bordering on a superpower. India and Turkey, maybe, how much influence do they wield on the international stage? It's your call. In my opinion Russia holds more sway in the international community than India or Turkey, currently. Potentially India could easily outstrip it if it wanted to. But Turkey seems to be more of a regional power. Of course that can change according to opinion, this is more of a judgmental call.

    But in terms of your first point, that's a poor definition of trying to reconcile them to being a world power my friend. In which case again we bring 'world power' status down to the effects of a 'regional powers' domain- for instance Afghanistan areas controlled by the Taliban, Iran, Belarus, Argentina- all of these in one way or another fall under your definition of being able to 'piss off western state(s) and suffer only limited 'consequences'- so basically we're using 'World Power' as a standard term for a state that's at least half-functioning and can mess around with other states then?
    Bad phrasing on my part, I meant to toe to toe with Europe and America over the Ukrainian issue, and arguably, come out ahead (bearing in mind they've already annexed a part of Ukrainian territory).

    Which is fine i guess, though i'd more call them 'regional powers' since nearly every country in the globe (that's 2nd or 1st world) can mess around with others and influence other states internationally in some form now.
    The problem with merely calling it a regional power is that it ignores my other points about Russias diplomatic ability, and the large amount of influence it's wielded in both Syria and Libya.

    In essence if we accept Russia as a world power, then we also accept most European states, BICS, Turkey, Iran, Israel (probably the closest to Russia- frequently exerts influence over the 'West' and gets away with doing much that the US doesn't sanction).
    You could probably argue that Israel could be considered a world power, personally I wouldn't, it's influence is limited to a much smaller region than Russias in my opinion.
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    Adar's Avatar Just doing it
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    Default Re: Russian soldiers got lost and accidentally established a spy base in Syria close to the Israeli border

    Quote Originally Posted by TWmodding View Post
    What is the problem there are spy bases of USA in Iraq, Israel etc...
    common thing for a world power
    Fun fact, the OP state Unlike other cases I do not find this problematic and no other post before your mentioned it as a problem either.

    It is more something that give an insight in the close relationship between Syria and Russia.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Russian soldiers got lost and accidentally established a spy base in Syria close to the Israeli border

    Seems legit
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    Default Re: Russian soldiers got lost and accidentally established a spy base in Syria close to the Israeli border

    I hope this doesn't come off as a shock to anyone. Everyone spies on everyone, allies and enemies alike. Enemies simply have more resources thrown their way is all.

    Besides, Russia is publicity supporting Assad. Its not exactly an intuitive leap to suspect they have facilities in his former territory.
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  18. #18
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Russian soldiers got lost and accidentally established a spy base in Syria close to the Israeli border

    When a group of Russian soldiers got "lost" in the middle of eastern Ukraine and were captured by the Ukrainian military during the hostilities this summer, they were truly stepping out of bounds. They obviously did not have authority from Kiev to cross the border. In this case, it's pretty obvious the Russians were invited by Bashar al-Assad, so I don't really understand what the issue is. There's really no harm, no foul in this situation, I'd say. Everyone spies on everyone; I thought this was well-established by now. For those who weren't aware of it before, I'm surprised the Wikileaks diplomatic cables and Edward Snowden's revelations didn't cue you to this fact.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Russian soldiers got lost and accidentally established a spy base in Syria close to the Israeli border

    So wait, Russia has a base in an allied country. The horror... stop the presses, spread russophobia.

  20. #20
    Lord of Nihilism's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Russian soldiers got lost and accidentally established a spy base in Syria close to the Israeli border

    I don't see the problem here. Russia currently has a naval base in Syria that they pay for, so it's pretty obvious that the Syrian Government has given Russia permission to build a base in Syria.


    Also Dante, the only World Power on your list(That includes Italy, the UK and etc) is France since the British, Italians or the Germans aren't powerful enough to be considered a world power.

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