mongol effect on an empire?

[awisler]

ive been trying to plan out my venetian campaign, and seeing as how ive never played mtw, what is the effect on an empire by the mongolian hordes? as venice i plan on expanding through greece first, then through the turks lands all the way east and then heading south, and finally west into egypt. but, would the hordes make my empire shrink a lot? i mean say i have to divert forces to fight them, then with the new AI my borders in egypt and europe may be overrun.

basically, how long and how difficult are the hordes?

[Phaedo]

In the original MTW, the Mongol invasion was a very palpable threat to an overland empire. I think their invasion force was somewhere along the lines of 10-12 full stack armies, nothing to scoff at.

As Venice in MTW:XL, I usually patronized either the Byzantines or the Turks, as they are the closest to the Mongol's starting province territorially. The naval system also allowed me to land a sizeable army one turn, attack the Mongols, and then withdraw to a safer position. We won't have that luxury in M2TW, unfortunately.

[Laverick]

we havent been given much information on the mongels, like their unit types and such. does anyone have any screens/info on them?

[Dave of the West]

Well, if your empire was a melon, the mongols would be the equivalent of hitting it with a really, really big hammer.

Ah, I exagerate, in MTW they tended to take the Steppes and then stop, which was a pain for Russia, Byzantium, the Turks, Poland and that lot

[Shaio]

i didn't find the Mongols ever to be a problem when i was playing mtw as Byzantines.
even the first time when the Mongols appearing took me by surprise.

it depends... just hope you have alot of pike/spear and archer heavy army's in the area at the time.

personally id leave the area they appear in alone, its relativity useless( thou i heard you can build the silk road in mtw2?) and just heavily guard your provinces that border it.
the Mongols will take alot of area when they first appear but then there momentum dies down and they start collapsing in. (atleast in mtw. )

[awisler]

ok so basically, 10-12 full stacks appear and no more? also, do they really go that far into europe? i mean do they just run straight through russia or do they fight there way through...?

[pero]

i hope not. Im planing to play russia 1st. I will have to make up a strong force to try to stop them. I think at the start ill just waige the war with poland take over and make a strong defencive position to wait for mongols. After i take care of them ill plan my tactics towards the europe.

[awisler]

ahh i forgot to ask, how early/late do they appear, ive been looking at the map. ive decided if they come early, then my plan will be to take greece and go up north until i reach the hungarians and stop my border there. then ill take milan, italy, and sicily. by then if they have appeared and some have been killed ill start invading the turks. this way some of them will be outta my way.

also, whats a good counter to them? i know they are fast with horse archers, so what type of army counters them? fast cavalry and ranged?

[Salil]

probably just long ranged units will do the trick, as light cavalry is the fastest unit in the game.. so other cavalry will be pretty useless against them, where as archers with long ranged missiles can outrange them and tkae them down fairly easy.. make sure you got some protection for your archers though, since the mongols have other cavalry units as well

[Chuffy]

Playing as the Turks in the High Period could turn into one of the hardest campaigns in the game. Not all the time, but the Golden Horde could really kick your arse from here to back if you weren't prepared. They tended to fizzle out after a while, but when they first emerged they would generally have twice as many soldiers as everybody else, all bow armed annoying mid-heavy cav...yeah.

They certainly surprised me in my first game of MTW:

The Turks in High Period.

"Doo dee doo dee, ahhh 1231, time to mop up the Mamlu- OH MY GOD!"

Possibly the hardest game of TW I've played to date...and the most fun!

[Lusted]

One of the first MTW campaigns i played was as the Russians in the high period, and i hadn't got a campaign to 1230 yet so i hadn't met the Golden Horde yet. So i expanded a bit, built up some forces, 1231 comes around, go "ooh, Golden Horde, sounds fun." Then i realise how big it is, and proceed to spend the next 50 years in the campaign fighting them.

[shadyrome]

depends what empire u choose?

[pero]

One of the first MTW campaigns i played was as the Russians in the high period, and i hadn't got a campaign to 1230 yet so i hadn't met the Golden Horde yet. So i expanded a bit, built up some forces, 1231 comes around, go "ooh, Golden Horde, sounds fun." Then i realise how big it is, and proceed to spend the next 50 years in the campaign fighting them.

hahah that sounds something like me, i had very similar problem.
played the russians 1st, started gaining military power, waged war on poland and germany. i was just about to conquer polish when golder horde arrived. I remember stright away i send 2 large armies agains them, and lost a big battle that costed me a lot.
I was almost done playing and i dont know how but i managed to defeat poland and hold of the atacks of golden horde and germany. It took me a while to continiue conquring.

[Animosity]

I was playing the byzantines on expert and totally forgot/didnt know about the golden horde arriving in kiev in 1230(?). Well they sent their whole nation south into my undefended backside. I scorched earth for 100 years, while trying to hold them off with urban militia/spearmen garrison armies.
eventually gaining loyalist rebellions of varangians, pronoia allagion, etc. and regaining all my territory i had lost.

[Asean]

I hope the mongols invade with a full stack of nothing but horse archers, and once they used up their arrows, they will just retreat. They will just decimate anything within their path... but I doubt that would happen.

[Dave of the West]

In my Byzantine campaigns, my favourite tactic was to assasinate their leader as soon as he appeared. With him dead, the faction died. This ment I could easily bribe and own the most deadly cavalry army in the world.

Oh yes, that was good.

[The True Roman]

the Mongols are some of the tufiest Figthing men I have ever faced in a TW game. I was england and I sent a Crusadeing army to eygpt because it was the richest province in Africa. And after that I spent tons of money recurting fighting men to go further into the middle east. soon I had a big chunk of what was the eygption empier. Then they showed up in one of my provinces that had a supstanshal amont of troops (it wasn't much but it was the largest troop consintration I had outside of Eygpt in the area) I took them on personally Iam thinking I can hold these guys off I got alot of spears and bows. Within menits I didn't kill a singal one and my entier army was routed (I had low level artchers and spearmen and they had elites with veterency) It was the worst defeat I ever had in TW history. Once those men were obliterated I sent all the rest of my men on a Tatical retreat to eygpt were I would make my stand (this far and no further here is were we make our stand :a Roman genral would of said if he were there) Thousands of men waited as the Mongels took there time getting to us. 5 years after my retreat the Mongles arive and are push back(my frist victory aginst them and I didn't command my troops. Back then those long Battles in MTW could last very long given the slow game speed and the reinforcements takeing forever to get to the feild of battle. So I use to let my commanders fight those battles they were good at it to not like these RTW commander who lose way more men then they should and kill alot less then they should) They repulse the Mongles for 3 years befor being overrun. I would never take Egypt agin or face them in combat agin. That was fun

[sporkyness]

lol dave you have the best tactic to use against the mongols there.

you thought they were bad in MTW.... prepare to get your ass handed to you in MTW2

the mongols are bigger badder and omfg harcore then ever before

[AlfonsoVIII]

Well when both emerging factions come about, I plan on using the bridges in the game to my advantage. That way you can just hold them off with arrows and artillery until they all die.

[Mr Tuna]

Playing as Early Byzantines I started off good,took Turkish territory,short war with Egyptians,expanding Into Bulgaria,and then I decided to take Russia (they attacked me) So I had almost took over all russian territory and my elite army was making Its way back.
The Elite army was actually a new forged army that gained experience In Russia and was on Its way back (like I already said) to Constantinople to get those cataphrats retrained.It constisted of a faction heir (lots of stars) 1 cataphrat at almost full strenght (merged from 3 other units that dies)some mercenary heavy cav (what was the name again) 3 Bulgarian Brigands and the rest filled with 60% byzantine infantry (wich also saw action against the Turks)an 40% Varangian guard.And yes you guess It Its 1230 and they hit Khazar (I always had bad luck) So there were these huge hordes of Mongols,but I beat them back,there was almost no good mixed army or lots of archers and almost no cav with a couple of horse archers (each army had a couple of them) or lots of inf.
Each time It took a couple of minutes to manouvre but then I surrounded them (It wasnt hard to provoke the mongolian heavy cav into action) and destroyed them utterly.After my glorious victory I left Khazar only leaving a byzantyne unit down to 20 men,new inf was being trained.Point was I forgot to switch the taxes to low.So what happens next turn,yes ladies and gentlemen a revolt to the mongols,why It happened I dont know they didnt took Khazar,perhaps a game script??

So the three new mogolian armies firstky destroyed Khazar and then swarmed out over newly took Russia,bandits horse archers and other things made It so harde that I took 20 years before I took Russia upto Poland.Wich attacked me Immedatly.

What the fun part was of many of my MTW 1 campaings was that everytime I thaught I was secure I was attacked by a small nation,but that small nation was every time such a pain In the ass that It took me 8 till 20 years before I could continue conquest.
For example when I was at the peak of my power I had from the east corner of the map till half to HRE everything. Except for the Egyptian lands wich were In africa,1 formerly turk territory an Syria.As you read no real contesters for power except for me but whe had a ceasefire.So when 1 Elite (the one from the Mongols) and 1 normal stack were fighting remnants of the HRE and seizing territory of France In a civil war (conquering England was on my side,alliance of course) I trained 4 stacks In asia minor and Greece Bulgaria including 1 with lot of Varangian guard and one with lots of archers.I assembled them on the border with Egypt and invaded onto the territory where my spies saw there Sultan.Stupid me didnt saw a reason to spy any further.And you guess when I invaded an took the territory ( Sultan and stack retreated) I decided to wait 1 turn to train an occupying force and hire some mercs.10,yes ten, Egyptian stacks (the Egyptian from MTW till Rome where always making babies on Rabbit speed)Invaded the territory.After a heavy defeat ( I thaught I could take them but I failed on all sides) I retreated till constantinople where I decided to make my stand with the Varangian guard an the heavy cav (just 1 trezibond archer unit) And after a heroic battle Constantinople fell.But the fight (unlike history) wastn over, I retreated behind the Donau and with newly traind byzantines from the Northen Balkan and the Elite army (yes the Mongol-HRE one) i beat back the invasion force.Although It would take about 5 years to retake Greece and 12 years (something like that) to retake Constantinople (lots of tries and lots of trooppouring out of Wallachia) And 15 before I took Nicea (counting from the Donau retreat) and then,the moment I invade Trezibond an the territory after Nicea (what was it again,I dont mean Lesser Armenia but the other) I got a CTD the savegame was broken and I couldnt load anymore.

But hell It was fun (and frustating) a pity I dont have any screenies from that period (hey I was like 11 and a computer noob)