Factions progress (some observations)

[Zeleny drak]

I have played 6 campaigns longer than 250 turns. Here are some observations regarding the development of each faction (especially in the games I had no presence in the area):
Pritanoi: Never do anything. They conquer the island and then just sit there. They are sometimes at war with one of the Gaulish faction but without any effect.
Aruernoi: Usually loses against the Aedui but manages to survive as vassal state. Very often it’s defeated by the Lusitanians.
Lusotanan: Usually are peace with Carthage and Areuakoi and expand around Numantia to conquer southern Gaul then push northwards against the Aruernoi. The faction was never destroyed in any of my games.
Areuakoi: Almost always declare war on Carthage , usually unsuccessfully. When I played as the Lusitaninans and expelled Carthage from Spain the Areuakoi conquered almost all Gaul and were sieging Rome. Without this kind of intervention they are usually stuck in the initial area, if they are not destroyed completely by Carthage.
Aedui: always dominated Gaul conquering all until the Rhine. Always attack Mediolanum. If Rome has it than the Aedui will attack Rome and very often completely destroy them. If Rome does not have Mediolanum then Aedui maintain the peace with Rome and stop expanding.
Rome: Always starts in force and around turn 100 they have most of Italy and maybe Massalia and Messina. After this turn they start having problems. The cities in the North start rebelling. Taras is almost always lost (if conquered in the first place) to Epirus. Quite often they are completely destroyed by a combined attack by Aedui and Epirus/ Carthage (or once Epirus and Macedon).
Numidia: Always starts a war with Carthage and always is either completely destroyed or becomes a vassal of Carthage. They will expand towards in the Sahara almost always but not to the west, towards Morocco.
Carthage: If not attacked by the player they will almost always either expand in Spain or at least keep the starting cities (although they will lose sometimes Gader in revolt). They always defeat Rome in Italy. Once they even conquered almost all Egypt. Usually one of the most succesfull factions.
Sweboz: Another of the very successful factions. Never expands west. Always goes towards the Southeast and destroys the Boii and turns the Lugi in a vassal state. By the turn 300 they destroy also the Getai and attack whoever has northern Thrace.
Boii: Expand in the first 50 turns in Panonia and then they are destroyed by the Sweboz. They migrate very slowly towards the west and either occupy a city in north of Italy or south Gaul or simply do nothing and hang around some Aedui cities to afraid to attack. The Aedui bring 3-4 full stacks and just keep them around. If they take over a city they usually lose it after 10-20 turns.
Getai: Never conquer Sarmisegethusa. They conquer the other rebel cities and then do nothing until they are destroyed by the Sweboz. (cont.)

[Zeleny drak]

Lugi: Always expand east, usually not very successful. Always defeated by Sweboz. In the most successful game for them they took over the north of the Black Sea (helping defeat the Sauromate) and then invaded northern Anatolia (where they were defeated by Selec.)
Epiros: in 5 games from 6 they destroyed Macedon and expelled the KH from mainland Greece. Almost always win against the Romans. Almost always one of the top factions. They expand towards Rome most of the time.
Macedon: If they survive Epiros they tend to expand towards Anatolia, although they also like launch naval invasions in the most unlikely places (Cyrene, Arpi or Patavium for example)
KH: always defeated by Epiros or Macedon. If not a vassal state of one of this two they survive for a while in Rhodes until finally somebody invades.
Pergamon: Does nothing for around 100 turns after which they attack Nicaea and Ancyra (and whoever ones it). They are usually destroyed by Selec. 50 turns latter.
Pontos: Does nothing for a very long time. Not attacked by the Selec. If they start expanding they go towards the East and then they are attacked by Bosporus
Seleucids: Passive for a very long time. Lose some cities in east to rebels, take back some of them. Small inconclusive fights with the Ptolomeis. After around 160-180 turns they start conquering the Ptolomeis cities in Anatolia and expanding down the coast of the Persic Gulf. After , they destroy Pergamon and start moving towards Pella. Either at peace in the east or inconclusive fights with the neighbours there. After initial setbacks they usually push the Nabateans into the Arabic Peninsula and then attack Alexandria (and whoever ones it).
Ptolomeis. The most usless big state. Never does anything. The passivity of the Seleucids keeps them going for a while. However I seen them almost completely destroyed by Carthage or Nabateans. They managed to keep Cyprus and Meroe in both cases.
Nabatea. They usually manage to survive although they lose setlements to the Selucids. Against the Ptolomies they are a lot more successful.
Saba. Expands towards the east. By the time they reach the Persian Gulf they will start fighting the Selucids, without any border changes. Sometimes they will also be at war with Taksashila. Unlike EB1 they never seem to go to Africa.
Haysadan. Will conquer the surrounding rebels. After they will do nothing. If they have Kutaisi they will be attacked by Bosporus and/or Sauromatae. Will be on friendly relations with Seleukeia . Unlike EB1 they don’t expand north of the Caucasus.
Bosporus. Sooner or later they are at war with Sarmatians. The results vary from defeat to draw or win. They will always go to the Southeast attacking whoever has Georgia.
Sauromatae : See above. If defeated they will migrate west. In the most epic journey they reached 600 years to early Spain where they settled in Arse. In some games they expand towards the east, destroying the Pahlava. Also likes the city in Georgia (as Bosporus) and will attack whatever faction has it.
Pahlava: Never invade Seleukia. Either they don’t do anything or they fight against Bactria without any of them wining.
Bactria. Always attacks Saka Ruka and almost always win. Later they will start figthing with Pahlava.
Taksashila: Late in the game they will attack Seleukia. Before they will just attack rebel settlements. In one game, together with Sauromate they destroyed the Pahlava (the cities in between rebelled against Selukia and got conquered by Pahlava).
Saka Ruka : Almost always defeated by Bactria. Once they were conquered by Bactria and migrated in the south of Mesopotamia.

[Hummer]

I thought there was already a thread titled Faction Progress that sort of kept track what you have described.

I disagree with some of this so I though I would post some of my own experience.

Cheers

Here is what I have observed playing 4 campaigns to approx 200 turns each...

I have seen Pritanoi in Gaul.
Aruernoi have beaten Aedui more times than not.
Lusotanan 50/50 whether they become the dominant Iberian power.
Areuakoi 50/50 whether they become the dominant Iberian power.
Rome sometimes wins all of sicily, sometimes loses all of it. Often expands north, west or east of the Alps but can often get pushed back into Italy.

Numidia 50/50 chance of destroying Kart-Hadast or being destroyed themselves. Often they horde and simply take a different Kart-Hadast province each time they horde.
Kart-Hadast sometimes takes all of Sicily, sometimes loses it all. Often loses all Iberian possessions. Can be almost completely destroyed by Numidia.
Sweboz often expands east but is not always successful. Sometimes crushed by Lugi and Gaulic tribe combination.
Boii often are stuck between powerful neighbors. Could be Sweboz, Lugi, Getai, Aedui, Aruernoi, or Rome.
Getai 50/50 chance of becoming a great power. Once took all of Greece, destroying Makedonia and Epierus.
Lugi often go east, sometimes destroy Sauromatae, often attack Bosporus.

Epeiros locked in an endless war in Greece with Makedonia.
Makedomia, locked in an endless war in Greece with Epeiros.
Edit: Koinin Hellenon, locked in an endless war in Greece with Eperios and Makedonia. However, is usually the loser in the 3 way war. Note. I have seen the KH congress event after KH has been destroyed... quite odd.
Pergamon, can often be static but can get into war with AS or Pontus.
Pontus, often comes into conflict with Hayasdan, Pergamon, or Bosporus who has expanded south.
AS, lots of conflict. Often with Pahlava and Ptolemei but usually no huge province changes.

Ptolemei, 50/50 chance of taking over AS possessions in Syria and Anatolia or equally good chance of losing their own.
Nabateans, often expand south but usually don't attack Saba.
Saba, goes east, sometimes come into Conflict with Taksashil. Can expand into rebel held cities in Africa.
Hayasdan, often gets destroyed by Bosporus.
Bosporus, often head south and war with Pontus and Hayasdan, often conquering Hayasdan completely.
Sauromate. Usually not successful. Often beaten by Lugi.

Pahlava often starts a war with AS but 50/50 chance of gaining territory.
Bactria often attacks Saka, often is successful.
Taksashila, unify India, sometimes comes into conflict with Saba or Baktria.
Saka, usually at war with Baktria, usually not successful.

[Jakkka123]

I've played about 6 campaigns until 200 turns on VH, these are rough estimates of what I've seen:

Pritanoi: 100% of the time unify Britain, then sit there and do nothing
Aruernoi: 50% of the time gets squashed between Lusotanan and Aedui, 50% of the time pushes back Aedui to secure France
Aedui: 50% of the time gets pushed back by Aruernoi, 50% of the time benefits from Aruernoi getting in a fight with Lusotanan going north
Lusotanan: 80% of the time pushes back Areuakoi to around one settlement then goes north, 20% of the time balance of power with Carthage and Areuakoi in Iberia
Arueakoi: 80% of the time gets pushed back by Lusotanan, 20% of the time balance of power with Carthage and Arueakoi in Iberia

Carthage: 100% of the time holds the original cities but does not expand further in Iberia, 100% of the time pushes back Numidia to around one settlement, 100% of the time takes over all Sicily, in late game 100% of the time pushes back Rome north to a couple of settlements
Rome: 100% of the time expand north to take the rebel cities and remove Epirus from Italian lands, in late game 100% of the time get pushed back north by Carthage, they are prevented from further expansion to the north because of Aruernoi, therefore 100% of the time go to rebel held Illyrian lands

Numidia: 100% of the time expand south, 100% of the time get pushed back by Carthage to around one settlement in late game
Sweboz: 80% of the time pushes back Lugi further east or Boii furter south, 20% of the time balance of power with Lugii and Boii
Lugi: 50% of the time expand west towards sweboz then get pushed back by Sweboz in late game to around one settlement, 50% of the time expands east towards Sauromate and keeps hold of its settlements
Boii: 50% of the time expand north then get in conflict with Sweboz/Lugi, 50% of the time just takes some rebel held settlements sit there and do nothing
Getai: 80% of the time take rebel held settlements in the west/south then get into conflict with Macedon/Epirus, 20% of the time takes some settlements in the north then get into conflict with Sauromate

Sauromate: 80% of the time expand west to take on Lugi/Getai, 20% of the time hold on to the original settlements sit there and do nothing not attacking Bosphorus not attacking Saka Rauka
Saka Rauka: 100% of the time get into conflict with Baktria or Pahlava then get pushed back further north
Pahlava: 80% of the time come into conflict with Baktria and get pushed back further north/west, 20% of the time holds on to original settlements and pushes back Saka Rauka further north
Baktria: 80% of the time come into conflict with Pahlava/Saka Rauka and pushes them back further north/west, 20% of the time gets into conflict Taksahila
Taksahila: 80% of the time takes over rebel held settlements to unify India and then sit there and do nothing, 20% of the time attack Baktria

Bosphorus: 100% of the time hold on to original settlemenst, sit there and do nothing
Hayasdan: 100% of the time expand further north/east to rebel held settlements, then in late game come into a 50/50 conflict with pontus
Pontus: 100% of the time expand further west/east to rebel held settlements, then in late game come into a 50/50 conflict with Hayasdan
Pergamon: 100% of the time hold on to original settlements, sit there and do nothing
Arche Seleukeia: 100% of the time push Ptolemies back from Anatolia and Lebanon/Palestine
Ptolemies: 100% of the time get pushed back by Arche Seleukeia from Anatolia and Lebanon/Palestine, never get into a conflict with Nabatae

Nabatae: 80% of the time expand further south, then come into a 50/50 conflict with Saba, 20% of the time hold on to original settlements sit there and do nothing
Saba: 80% of the time expand west to African lands and north towards Nabatae, then come into a 50/50 conflict with Nabatae, 20% of the time expand east towards Oman only fighting rebel held settlements
Epeiros: 100% of the time get pushed back by Rome early on from Italian land, then get into a 50/50 conflict with Makedonia for land
Makedonia: 100% of the time expand south to push back Koinon Hellenon to around one settlement, then get into a 50/50 conflict with Epeiros for land
Koinon Hellenon: 100% of the time get pushed back by Makedonia to around one settlement then hold on to some greek island in the area



My conclusions:
Pritanoi, Bosphorus and Pergamon act pretty much useless on the campaign map
Carthage seems to be overpowered, Rome very much "underpowered"
Koinon Hellenon, Ptolemies act very weak and timid

The results on other factions can be subject to change if I play more campaigns, so I can't give a clear opinion on those

[kingman1337]

Is there any way to change factional behavior?

[alex86]

Balance and AI behavior is something that everyone's watching as part of the beta process, so threads like this are great. It'll help fine-tuning wherever that's needed. Maybe some scripting, some money, some reallocating of starting army positions...

I wonder if Rome's underpowered-ness has to do with the clunky 'Imperium' trait concept.

[Hummer]

Does the AI follow the Imperium trait? I have and found it to be very immersive. However I never thought the AI would. I didn't think the AI was that smart.

[Zeleny drak]

I think the biggest problem for Rome is that the AI does not handle very well the cultural conversion process. As such Rome quickly conquers Segesta and Festina and then they are stuck there with large armies trying to keep the cities from revolting.
Also a big issues for all AI factions is that allied type governments are not destroyed when conquered and work for all factions.As such most factions never change the government type for provinces conquered even if they are the same culture as they are.

[Zeleny drak]

I thought there was already a thread titled Faction Progress that sort of kept track what you have described.

I disagree with some of this so I though I would post some of my own experience.

I'm sure that other people will have different experiences. It's hard to separate your influence for normal development. When I was playing with Pahlava, for example, and conquering most of the AS all their neighbors attacked them. I never attacked the Aedui so maybe that's why the were so successful in Gaul in all my games. Maybe if they are attacked the Pritanoi will also invade. It's also a lot of randomness. A huge invasion fleet of Carthage with two full stacks was destroyed in one of my games by a storm. They lost all the cities in Iberia after that and never invaded again. This why is I it will be good for people to share their impressions, to be able to see some patterns. Until now it seem quite clear that Rome is underpowered as are the ptolomeis and pergamon. Under human control pergamon is quite an easy game but for the AI this does not seem the case.

[Henri]

Not seeing why people are saying Rome is underpowered ~ they seem to do alright in every game I've played.

Here are some screenies from games (all H/M with v2 ai) :

Cimmerian Bosphorus turn 338


Ptomely turn 425


Macedon turn 225


Prittanoi turn 179


Hayasdan turn 93 (current game)


Cathage & Ptomely seems to be the underpowered ones.

Macedon generally unifies Greece and then gets stomped by everyone else ~ the Mak ai will just keep picking fights.

I've yet to see AS troubled by the AI nations.

[spanish_emperor]

I can't say for sure but in my campaign turn 411 Pergamon has expanded against the Selecuids and taken all Asia Minor and Syria. Pontus has taken all of Georgia and Bosporus (Bos. is on one province somewhere). Epirus has taken all of Greece, Thrace, Cyreniaca (where Macedon's last stand was against Epirus and Egypt), Dacia/Getai, Illyria. I can concur with the OP that the Boii seem to be wiped out relatively fast by the Sweboz. They turned horde and appeared in southern Spain. Biggest Surprise is Areuakoi who took all of Spain, Gaul, Britain, Mid and Northern Italy and Germany. They made Aedui their vassals early on, then destroyed them, then swept the Aruernoi and Lusotanni and then nearly killed off Rome until i intervened. Im Carthage btw, Also, Numidians never bother to conquer the rebels in Morocco.

[Hummer]

Henri,

Who are the 3 hordes I'm seeing in 2 of the campaigns?