What the Campaign map should have been like

[Miraj]

No this isn't a complaint, I just posted this idea on the M2: Total Realism forum as what I wished the campaign map and factions would have been like.




Just a rough idea of that I scratched together with paint. This is the map that I really wished M2TW would have used: slightly extended to the east and with a few more Muslim factions adding richness and diversity.

Factions I added:

- Berbers
- Cicilian Armenia
- Emirate of Damascus/Ayyubids
- Abbasid Caliphate
- Khwarezmid Empire

If there is a higher faction limit then I wouldn't mind Milan and Portugal back.

Just my two cents.

[Candelarius]

Interesting. I'm sure somebody will make a similar "easter flavor" mod.

Personally, I like the CA map better...I don't have much interest in the Muslim powers. But that's just my humble bias, I guess.

[Miraj]

Personally, I like the CA map better...I don't have much interest in the Muslim powers. But that's just my humble bias, I guess.

Yes, but adding a little more to the east doesn't really negatively affect players who will play only Euro factions. Look at it this way: More Muslims to crusade against.

[shadyrome]

Never heard of the fraction u added before..

[Ulyaoth]

I don't see the purpose of Berbers, Aragon would be a more important faction, as well as another Russian faction.

[The Mongol]

I don't see the purpose of Berbers, Aragon would be a more important faction, as well as another Russian faction.

I agree but I think he's going for more Eastern factions to even it out.

Either way, what's the point of this thread really? Everyone wishes the campaign map was different in some way but the rest of us don't post it do we? (Not to mention the game is out in 2 weeks)

I don't see how this adds to anything, sorry.

[Candelarius]

I agree but I think he's going for more Eastern factions to even it out.

Either way, what's the point of this thread really? Everyone wishes the campaign map was different in some way but the rest of us don't post it do we? (Not to mention the game is out in 2 weeks)

I don't see how this adds to anything, sorry.

It adds just as much as all the other topics in the forum. This is a discussion forum. He proposed a legit topic for discussion and even made a visual presentation. Don't be rude.

[DougyM]

It adds just as much as all the other topics in the forum. This is a discussion forum. He proposed a legit topic for discussion and even made a visual presentation. Don't be rude.

What discussion is there in a map with somebodies opinion on it?

Taking into account the numerous other threads relating to the campaign map already.

Id also say your being a bit rude.

[pero]

add serbia and lithuania to that map to.

[xopium]

Well, I prefer these kinds of threads where people share ideas about modding rather than snobbish argument threads like half of the ones here where people try to out-patronise each other and behave like children on what factions "should" be included in MT2W or it's mods. I don't think this is the ideal part of the forum for this discussion but well, it's constructive IMO.

[Miraj]

I don't see the purpose of Berbers, Aragon would be a more important faction, as well as another Russian faction.

The berber tribes existed in that region during BI's period if you remember, and they existed uptil this point. The reason I added the Berbers was because the Moors would obviously be wiped out by the pressure of the Spanish and Norman Sicily and it would be good to have a Berber faction fill in that vacuum as it would be more realistic since taking over N Africa for Sicily or Spain would never be that easy.

Splitting the Spaniards up into Aragon and Castille is also a great idea. But that would make Iberia way too crowded especially if you included the Portuges in too.

Another Russian faction also sounds good. Perhaps "Kieven Rus" and "Principality of Moscow", the Russian region is way too empty for sure.

It would perhaps be better for the Muscovites to arise as a "emerging faction" if the Rus are destroyed by the Mongols. Same perhaps for the Berbers, if the Moors are destroyed from N. Africa then the script could spawn and emerging Berber faction.

I agree but I think he's going for more Eastern factions to even it out.

Either way, what's the point of this thread really? Everyone wishes the campaign map was different in some way but the rest of us don't post it do we? (Not to mention the game is out in 2 weeks)

I don't see how this adds to anything, sorry.

I agree there is not point as far as M2TW is concerned. This thread was meant for the modders working on M2TR. I posted it there first and added it here too just for the heck of it.

So yeah this is a thread for what can be done in future mods.

[xopium]

The berber tribes existed in that region during BI's period if you remember, and they existed uptil this point. The reason I added the Berbers was because the Moors would obviously be wiped out by the pressure of the Spanish and Norman Sicily and it would be good to have a Berber faction fill in that vacuum as it would be more realistic since taking over N Africa for Sicily or Spain would never be that easy..

This is quite true, but as far as I've seen about the Moors faction in MT2W they seem to be very strong unit wise at the start but sort of decline like the Byzantines: the same parellel for the Spanish and Portugese is that they seem to grow in power unit-wise.

On another note, I really wonder what MT2W would have been like if it was possible to combine factions or at least unions of factions temporarily with the whole princess thing (i.e. if your princess marries a faction leader or heir and as long as he lives you can use the other factions units and the other faction is in permanent alliance with yours, for example), ti would have made Aragon and Castile more... well... feasible rather than a "Spanish" faction or at least show the Habsburg unions but that's more of a Reformation period kind of thing.

I agree with the idea of the Muscovites as an emerging faction and the Burgundians.

I'm thinking of starting a Reformation period mod in the future though once we know the ins and outs of MT2W... well once I get enough experience at modding.

[Cadmium77]

No this isn't a complaint, I just posted this idea on the M2: Total Realism forum as what I wished the campaign map and factions would have been like.




Just a rough idea of that I scratched together with paint. This is the map that I really wished M2TW would have used: slightly extended to the east and with a few more Muslim factions adding richness and diversity.

Factions I added:

- Berbers
- Cicilian Armenia
- Emirate of Damascus/Ayyubids
- Abbasid Caliphate
- Khwarezmid Empire

If there is a higher faction limit then I wouldn't mind Milan and Portugal back.

Just my two cents.

No Burgundians? They were the wealthiest and most powerful faction in Europe at the time of Agincourt..

[Miraj]

No Burgundians? They were the wealthiest and most powerful faction in Europe at the time of Agincourt..

Oh sorry. I'm not the most knowledgable person with relation to the European kingdoms of this era. I was just focusing on how to add more eastern/muslim factions since there are only 3 in M2TW.


I read up a little on the Burgundians and the wiki article says they were absorbed by the Frankish kingdoms. Are you talking about a different Burgundy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgundians

[Candelarius]

Oh sorry. I'm not the most knowledgable person with relation to the European kingdoms of this era. I was just focusing on how to add more eastern/muslim factions since there are only 3 in M2TW.


I read up a little on the Burgundians and the wiki article says they were absorbed by the Frankish kingdoms. Are you talking about a different Burgundy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgundians

That article is on the early tribal group called Burgundians...from whence "Burgundy" get's it's name. (Look up "Burgundy" at Wiki). However, the Duchy of Burgundy played a pivotal role through the Middle Ages, especially during the 100 Years War and in the War of the Roses. Burgundy played France and England off against each other, and was coveted by both those powers, as well as the HRE. But, I don't think they need be a faction in the game, if you add that duchy, you open a can of worms to make many other duchies into factions. I think the generic option CA went for probably works best.

[Scarlett Letterman]

Ugh, just a few more faction slots and mods could make a perfectly balanced map, with a good number of factions in each region. I like yours but western europe doesn't look to exciting, I would turn the berbers rebel, and add Lithuania, and sacrifice one muslim faction in order to split Spain into two.

[Ulyaoth]

During the Hundred Year was the Burgundians were just as much of a threat to the French as the the English, the two being allied I think anyway. After the war the French absorbed Burgundy and then tried to conquer Italy.

[Miraj]

Well I really really hope that the folks over at CA had the wisdom to not hardcode a faction limit. Allowing up to 30 factions would allow for an amazing M2TR mod that would encompass all the important powers of the Europe and the MidEast.

[Shadow_Imperator]

To that map, I would add the Burgundians, Teutonic order (Emerging), Crusader States (Emerging), Swiss (Emerging), I would split Russia into two or three factions (Novgorod, Kiev and/or Muscovy), Bulgaria, Serbia, Cumans, Khazars, Duchy of Bohemia, Aragon, Portugal and Genua/Milan.

[Miraj]

To that map, I would add the Burgundians, Teutonic order (Emerging), Crusader States (Emerging), Swiss (Emerging), I would split Russia into two or three factions (Novgorod, Kiev and/or Muscovy), Bulgaria, Serbia, Cumans, Khazars, Duchy of Bohemia, Aragon, Portugal and Genua/Milan.

I agree on Russia being split into Kiev and Muscovy. But the rest are way too many European factions. The point is to balance the game to include more eastern factions. Currently there are 18 or so European/Christian factions and only 3 Muslim/Eastern Factions, that pretty much sums up the problem.