[Submod] light_spear, infantry and cavalry javelineer, all cavalry speed EDU fixes

[QuintusSertorius]

Question regarding which mod to use.

I wish to fix the cavalry javelin and infantry javelin behavior. Which option do I use.and how do I ensure that the cavalry speeds also are modded?

The text files all seem to be mutaully exclusive so which one does rhe OP recommend? Thankyou

Get the last one, update 6. That's all the fixes, including tighter formation for underarm lancers. It's the same file as the second one in the hotfix thread.

Only updates 5 and 6 have increased cavalry speed. If you just want everything fixed without faster cavalry, get update 3.

[Petite Wolf]

Get the last one, update 6. That's all the fixes, including tighter formation for underarm lancers. It's the same file as the second one in the hotfix thread.

Only updates 5 and 6 have increased cavalry speed. If you just want everything fixed without faster cavalry, get update 3.

It might be a good idea to make it a little clearer that update 6 is every other tweak as well as the underarm lancer one. It's unclear in the OP at the moment as to whether it's JUST underarm lancer tweaks or everything plus that.

[QuintusSertorius]

It might be a good idea to make it a little clearer that update 6 is every other tweak as well as the underarm lancer one. It's unclear in the OP at the moment as to whether it's JUST underarm lancer tweaks or everything plus that.

Every one of them is cumulative, I should make that clearer in the OP.

[ertai1987]

I've been running some custom battles to test different units and noticed* something strange. Some AI Principes units got stuck in the reloading animation which meant that the soldiers in the back of the formation were literally just standing still; they didn't lose cohesion but they weren't actively fighting either - I'm pretty sure it did affect the outcome of the engagement.

* Not sure if that would happen pre-submod (I hadn't really paid much attention before) and not sureif that's the case for other infantry units with javelins as well.

[QuintusSertorius]

I've been running some custom battles to test different units and noticed* something strange. Some AI Principes units got stuck in the reloading animation which meant that the soldiers in the back of the formation were literally just standing still; they didn't lose cohesion but they weren't actively fighting either - I'm pretty sure it did affect the outcome of the engagement.

* Not sure if that would happen pre-submod (I hadn't really paid much attention before) and not sureif that's the case for other infantry units with javelins as well.

It'll have been the same before; only part of a unit actually fighting is a general problem with this iteration of EBII, and besides giving the Principes the light_spear attribute for their weapon instead of spear, nothing is different.

[ertai1987]

It'll have been the same before; only part of a unit actually fighting is a general problem with this iteration of EBII, and besides giving the Principes the light_spear attribute for their weapon instead of spear, nothing is different.

I am aware of this issue - and it could quite likely be that the root of the problem is the same - but this looked different: when infantry units lose their cohesion (say the first line is in combat and the rest of the unit stays 20 meters behind them) in an engagement they generally remain somehow active, they take some sort of "battle stance" and eventually, might push, move, or crawl towards their foe but in this case the soldiers in the back were literally just standing.

On another note, javelineers could use an additional buff in missile attack - Atm, I feel they are pretty much just an immersion, role-playing feature.

[QuintusSertorius]

I am aware of this issue - and it could quite likely be that the root of the problem is the same - but this looked different: when infantry units lose their cohesion (say the first line is in combat and the rest of the unit stays 20 meters behind them) in an engagement they generally remain somehow active, they take some sort of "battle stance" and eventually, might push, move, or crawl towards their foe but in this case the soldiers in the back were literally just standing.

Addressing that is beyond the scope of my expertise, I'll leave that to people who know the EDU and associated files much better.

On another note, javelineers could use an additional buff in missile attack - Atm, I feel they are pretty much just an immersion, role-playing feature.

Which units are you observing? I've found Akontistai and Euzonoi to be pretty handy both in sieges and open field battles, and Libyan Skirmishers aren't a unit I take lightly when facing Qart-Hadast.

[ertai1987]

Which units are you observing? I've found Akontistai and Euzonoi to be pretty handy both in sieges and open field battles, and Libyan Skirmishers aren't a unit I take lightly when facing Qart-Hadast.

Dorkim Maurim and Neitotoi (aka Gaesamica?) in large open, custom battles - I also have had some experience using Euzonoi, Akontistai, Bactrian Tribesmen and Komatai in campaigns.

You're right, they can be handy: they do give a significant edge to hoplites and other units with no javelins of their own against infantry units with javelins controlled by the AI.
The problem for me is the game-balancing aspect e.g. generally how useful is a javelineer unit compared to a missile unit or an extra light infantry unit. Although I don't believe game-balance should be the ultimate goal and also do like tinkering army compositions with specialized units, right now the discrepancy is too crass.

[WAD81]

@ertai: for me, this is one of the biggest issues with 'prec' attribute.

[Rad]

Your submod brought the best in skirmishers. I am actually using them now.

[Rad]

Did you do anything to the Dacian Light Phalanx? They're incredibly weak, it would appear

[QuintusSertorius]

I didn't touch them specifically; if they're not a spear user or javelineer, then they're however they were left in 2.01.

[Rad]

They are a spear troop... check, please. I don't have the original file anymore.

[QuintusSertorius]

They are a spear troop... check, please. I don't have the original file anymore.

If you mean the Getikoi Stratiotai, I've not touched them. They're a light_spear using unit already, and I haven't altered stats of individual units. If I start doing that, I'll have to look at them all, and Ibrahim is doing that.

[Rad]

I'll contact Ibrahim.

[WAD81]

In the meantime, for the enjoyment of players, could you introduce some small fixes? I'll post my finds here.

boii retainers: they use spear/sword combo but they have have javelins/sword in their model:

category infantry
class heavy
--------------------------------------
stat_pri 9, 5, prec_javelin75, 75, 1, thrown, missile_mechanical, piercing, none, 0, 1
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown

Edit: their armour seems a tad too high, 6 perhaps should be better

[Rad]

So... you wanna give them javelins?
Not a bad idea, they already have the javelin model. Could be nice if properly balanced. Not sure if it's worth a restarting a campaign, though.

Got a question. Is it possible to get rid of the Aedui/Arverni campaign armor upgrades?
It's a bugged feature, basically their units start with upgraded armor, there's no need for reforms... start a test campaign, train a few units. You'll see what I am talking about.

[WAD81]

The thing is... they already have javelin models. Right now they go into melee with a javelin, which doesn't make sense. And it is simply a bug.
Arverni and Aedui retainers have spear/sword combination, which must have misled the EDU author.

You don't need to restart anything. Open your EDU, find boii retainers, apply the changes: unit class, primary weapon lines, armour value.

Edit: to delete armour upgrades - open EDBuilding, scroll down a bit and you'll see that city buildings have the armour upgrades ascribed to them. Simply delete them and all newly-trained units will have their basic armour version. Use Notpad++ or you'll CTD probably.

[Rad]

Wad, dude. I agree with you. I know they have javelins. They were probably supposed to be a javelin/sword unit, but it got changed in the last minute. I reported it as a bug a month or two ago.

About the armor upgrades... will it mess up with the Celtic reforms?

[WAD81]

^and rightly so

Nope, deleting armour upgrades will not interferee with the script or the recruitment from government buildings, 100% sure.