[Submod] light_spear, infantry and cavalry javelineer, all cavalry speed EDU fixes

[QuintusSertorius]

Played with Update 2... cavalry javelins work nicely now. Haven't finished testing, though.

Ah, I thought you'd already tried Update 2. That's good then, it confirms the range-change fixes the propensity to throw issue, but now the problem is that they don't do much damage.

[Rad]

Yup, saw that as well... if you can't tweak it, don't worry. I don't think that saddle-thrown javelins were the real killer in Ancient times anyways. It does what it's supposed to do, disrupts movement and formation.

[WAD81]

The change of range was obviously the first choice. Personally, I went for 50 meters.
No need to change animation.
Perhaps more cohesive formation? I found 2.8, 3, 4, 5, 5, is good enough.
Most important: 'cav_heavy_javelin' - this is the proper missle type. No-brainer for me. It's accuracy is good enough to deal some meaningful damage. 'Cav_javelin' is the utter garbage.

[WAD81]

^ ofc you can tweak numbers in descr-projectile, but the mass audience will perhaps only want to copy-paste your EDU

In my experience, c_h_j is not OP, no worries.

[QuintusSertorius]

The change of range was obviously the first choice. Personally, I went for 50 meters.
No need to change animation.
Perhaps more cohesive formation? I found 2.8, 3, 4, 5, 5, is good enough.
Most important: 'cav_heavy_javelin' - this is the proper missle type. No-brainer for me. It's accuracy is good enough to deal some meaningful damage. 'Cav_javelin' is the utter garbage.

Is 50m enough? They were already at 45m for the most part, I might reduce to 55m if they'll still work as intended, especially if they're going to get more effective.

I worry about the accuracy_vs_units for cav_heavy_javelin - it's a rather hefty 0.045. Cavalry skirmisher units are quite a bit smaller than their infantry counterparts, so perhaps I shouldn't worry.

^ ofc you can tweak numbers in descr-projectile, but the mass audience will perhaps only want to copy-paste your EDU

In my experience, c_h_j is not OP, no worries.

I'll give it a try.

Any thoughts on speed? I was thinking of changing to 1.2 for heavy cavalry, 1.5 for medium and 1.8 for light.

[WAD81]

50m is okeish. But yes, at some point I wanted to go for 60m.
Exactly - cavalry skirmishers are a smaller unit, which evens things out. Just check it in practice - they're not the ultimate snipers & killers.
I'd go for c_h_j for the simple reason of no EDU changes.

Cavalry speeds? I was actually happy with them. Good in straight line & it's easy for me to disengage from melee vs infantry. But I'll check it in more detail and let you know.

[QuintusSertorius]

50m is okeish. But yes, at some point I wanted to go for 60m.
Exactly - cavalry skirmishers are a smaller unit, which evens things out. Just check it in practice - they're not the ultimate snipers & killers.
I'd go for c_h_j for the simple reason of no EDU changes.

I'll wait and see what people say, let the latest changes bed in. It's 60m range and cav_heavy_javelin40 for all cavalry javelineers, which should make a difference.

Cavalry speeds? I was actually happy with them. Good in straight line & it's easy for me to disengage from melee vs infantry. But I'll check it in more detail and let you know.

Cavalry are only slightly faster than infantry (and in the case of some of the heavier ones, slower than the lightest), which is wrong. You notice it most at the end phase of a battle, when people start routing. Heavy cavalry can't catch fleeing light infantry. Light cavalry can't catch fleeing heavy cavalry unless you're on them early. Cavalry generally are too slow.

[QuintusSertorius]

I think I've settled on what I'm going to do with cavalry speeds. I'm going to multiply them all by 1.6 - ie increase them by 60% - and see how that affects things.

Watch out for Update 4, which will include faster cavalry.

[Rad]

Stop posting updates every day
I'll download it, hopefully it's savegame compatible.

[Rad]

Well, it isn't. I'll keep playing with Update 2 until you make a more final version.

[QuintusSertorius]

Well, it isn't. I'll keep playing with Update 2 until you make a more final version.

Don't bother with Update 2 - javelin cavalry isn't working properly there because their weapons are rubbish, even if they now throw. Use either Update 1 or Update 3. Update 4 coming shortly - all cavalry are now faster.

[QuintusSertorius]

Is anyone able to report back on the cavalry speed change? Is it too much? Not enough? Just right? Does it impact anything else?

[Rad]

I'll give it a try. Finally got the free time.

[Rad]

Too fast. They disengage quickly, which is nice, but those horses are on steroids!

[QuintusSertorius]

Too fast. They disengage quickly, which is nice, but those horses are on steroids!

Which units are you observing? Is it lights who are too fast or heavies as well?

[Rad]

Median Cavalry, Medium Eastern Cavalry.

[QuintusSertorius]

Median Cavalry, Medium Eastern Cavalry.

They're both "lights" in my breakdown, so perhaps the 60% boost was too much. I'm going to have a look myself later in Custom Battle. It might be that I should have gone with the same 30% I used for heavies across the board, rather than trying to make the gap between very distinct.

[Rad]

Try with 40% increase... even that might be a lot.

[QuintusSertorius]

Try with 40% increase... even that might be a lot.

Just had a try myself. I think heavy cavalry are fine, but lights are definitely too fast. However, not as super-fast as I'd feared, I think 40% might be the right level. Or perhaps 35%. I'll test and see.

[QuintusSertorius]

Having tested some more, I think at 30%/40% both are slightly too fast. So I'm going with 25%/35% and I think I'm set.