Master Of Strategy Sengoku (MoSS) (2019/20/03)

[DeMolay]

That is strange, I didnt play Otomo yet but i do not have issues with the navies, it works fine for me. Maybe you have some traces of other mods that conflict perhaps? They don't move on the campaign map or during battles? I have played 2 campaigns so far and only crashed once.

Maybe you should reinstall a clean copy of shogun2 and then download the mod on steam and enable the modules in the right order, i did that and it works like a charm. The only issue i had was in the Ise region, there is a narrow pass that only leaves room for one agent or army to go through so the crash happened there when i sieged with one army with a general behind me in that spot and retreated the siege to see what happens. It can also happen in Omi perhaps near the farms close to Echizen.

I really hope Weierstrass is still working on this amazing mod, I would really love to see new clans playable, I love this period of history and to have a clan like Saito playable for example would be awesome. Somehow it is one of the clans that has not been made justice in this game or in any mod.

Their warriors were truly a force to be reckoned with, Oda Nobunaga drew many of their retainers in his army (Akechi Mitsuhide, Ando Morinari, Fuwa Mitsuharu, Inaba Ittetsu, Mori Yoshinari etc..) alongside their famed samurais absorbed in his armies. The province of Mino ruled by Saito Dosan before the start date, the man who started as a monk then a merchant and who ultimately became a daymio of Mino (what a destiny..) and made the province quite prosperous which attracted men of valor, his armies were feared in the region. To give a few anecdotes, Nobuhide, the father of Nobunaga was defeated by Dosan's army in 1547 before winning a pyrrhic victory later on, Nobunaga himself was defeated by Saito Yoshitatsu's army after Dosan's death when trying to avenge him with all his might. This wasnt because Yoshitatsu was a military genius but essentially due to the high value of the Mino warriors and the skill of their generals. The only reason why Nobunaga could conquer Mino after Yoshitatsu's death was because of massive defections of Mino retainers and samurais to the Oda army, otherwise it would definitely not be possible at all. In fact without the Mino samurais in his army, it is arguable that Nobunaga would not have been able to march to Kyoto defeating several clans in the process, and would not have been able to defeat the Asai-Asakura ( with the considerable help of the Tokugawa allies) at Anegawa. The Mino samurais were that fiercesome in battle, people know about the Takeda samurais, the Shimazu warriors, the Echigo warriors , Mikawa samurais etc, but the Mino samurais are often overlooked even though they were instrumental in Nobunaga's army and arguably the strongest warriors in the region. In the context of the mod it means that the Saito clan could have a bonus for yari samurais and/or mounted samurais perhaps a bonus for trade. Trade cause of one of the reasons Nobunaga did his best to develop trade, lift barriers, improved roads etc.. was because he wanted to emulate what Saito Dosan did to make his province wealthy without having access to the sea and nearly impregnable since he could attract so many brave warriors from around the region in his ranks.

Anyways, Saito clan playable would be a great addition to this mod really , also i am thinking that maybe it could be integrated with the new mod that made Imagawa, Mogami and Satake playable since we still have the traditional vanilla clans playable in this pack, so maybe it could be added by updating this pack and replacing the 'major' clans that are already playable in the main pack. Then maybe some minor clans as well for the gameplay value, like Nanbu to have something playable in the far north, Ryuzoji in the north of Kyushu and one of those clans in near Kyoto in the Chugoku region since Mori starts with a lot of provinces already in the far west of honshu and is the only playable clan in Chugoku.

One thing I do not understand though is why the start date was moved to 1562 instead of 1560 since Imagawa Yoshimoto was technically dead in 1560 at Okehazama but that is not a big problem though, just curious why it was moved forward since 1560 or even a bit before would be ideal as a start date, especially since we usually spend the first 20-30 turns getting techs and building an army but that is fine as it is anyways, not a big issue at all. This mod got me excited and playing Shogun again, hopefully you are still working on this mod!

[DeMolay]

Just want to add one last thing having played the mod a lot lately, though it is possible that you can disagree.

I really think that the workshop buildings (blacksmither, goods workshop) that is a prerequisite to unlock later on several standard samurais unit types with higher tier workshops and let you get the crafts resource to get other important things should not require copper but instead iron because copper can be very hard to get (for instance for Shimazu) and those things are supposed to be obtained mid game (market, bow sams, nodachi, naginata sams etc)

Whereas iron can be obtained via nodes once a player managed to get wood to get a trading port. Cause the way it is now , copper is the most important resource with wood early on, without it you cannot improve workshops which means you cant get crafts which means you cant get markets and many 'basic' units and cannot really kickstart your development.

What i want to say is that if a player doesnt want to steamroll the map in the first 40 turns to capture the few copper regions, the whole economy and army development can be bogged down because copper is missing. If iron would replace copper and copper would replace iron for the requirements, it would be really great as it would allow players who want to turtle or develop themselves in a certain way to be able to do so. In my humble opinion, copper should be required for higher tier stuffs because it is quite rare and difficult to acquire compared to iron which is more easy to obtain and would suit more a 2nd/3rd tier building requirement than a rare resource like copper (it would also make more sense that a blacksmith or workshop first requires iron as the main resource) . Anyways, just my 2 cents for what i think would be an improvement.

[DeMolay]

Actually since the thread/forum seems dead, I modified this myself with PFM (quite easy though the resources names are misleading, bos-iron is washi paper, wood is actually tea, machines are wood etc) and changed the resources requirements for every building for what i think is more logical. It is now really nice for me based on 3 campaigns played, I ve have had positive results on the AI as well since they have armies with more diverse units instead of spamming militia until turn 100+ (probably because i trade with them resources earlier or else it is a placebo effect) , it is also possible now for the player to have cavalry/nodachi sams, nag sams, bow sams etc.. before getting access to copper which was really annoying me since in many cases in legendary, i didnt get access to it before turn 100ish with some clans or when i am not looking to win the campaign but turtle a bit and play on 10 provinces max like say just Echigo. If anyone is interested you can PM me as I am not sure I can post the file here without the authorization of our hero Weierstrass who made a truly fantastic mod that i love so much.

[Weierstrass]

Hello. I know i have been a bit absent from the forums. I'm evaluating the way to improve AI flow. Part with resources but as well with AI tables. It would be good to check what you did.
About why resources change names .. well it's because UI is hardcoded. Not changing the names would be UI-less resource. All units resources must be from SHO resources and not BOS. If not they display something else that is confusing.
Post it here, i like google drive links but the one you want.
Also i'm working on the AI usage of trade ships which idk why it's not using.

[DeMolay]

Awesome! So you are here still, thank you very much for your reply Weierstrass

Sure I will post it here, basically I changed most requirements for ressources by themes and tiers. To summarize grossly, most academic building require paper, most early tier military,blacksmith and agriculture building require iron, most higher tier dojos require luxury weopons, most higher tier blacksmiths/weaponsmiths/mining require copper, most entertainement/gesisha/sake buildings require sake or tea etc.. I think that when you open the file and check 'bulding levels', you can sort by 'resources requirements' to check in details, of course you know this but in case someone wants to change for his own enjoyment. Basically now Wood, Iron and Sake are the most important resources to have early to mid game.

One thing though, there are minor personal fixes included cause i dont know how to isolate only the 'building levels' files, that is why i uploaded the full "Mos4 main 4 data" pack, as before i changed the resources, I had edited the agent caps ( 3 ninjas, 6 monks, 5 metsukes) to avoid agent spam by the AI in tight spaces on the uanime map to minimize possible issues in tight spots, and also their movement points ( metsukes cannot chase ninjas over the map, they see more than monks but to simulate that they have a staff with them they have a bit less movement points than monks/missionaries, ninjas have the most movement points). There are also minor changes to unit stats (Nodachi charge and melee attack buffed slightly as they were losing to other units, Spear cavalry to reflect why they were prominent on the battlefield, nerfed Naginata cav for 'realism' reason as a very tip heavy and short 2 handed polearm is not good on a horse or for a charge). Possibly tachi/katana cavalry as well was slightly changed if i remember well as this weapon is more agile and faster to use on a horse than naginata and since they dont have anti-cav bonus i buffed their melee attack a bit. Anyways just very minor changes that do not affect gameplay much really.

Thank you so much Weierstrass once again for your work, it is really awesome what you did, i owe you countless hours of enjoyment!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zo...1Ai250fSGYXIt4

[Superquan]

To who cannot use mod manager to anable the mod, you can use the 2nd version of it instead of 3th (3th version supports steam version while the 2nd supports the manual installed version).

But i got some wierd bugs, in my Otomo campaign, i can control ship to sail anywhere, the Daimiyo in the selection screen got screwed up, etc...

Forgot to mention, some building slots cost to much, i mean, 10 milionkoku ?.

[Lucy]

Have you considered adjusting the starting size of retainers of different clans? It's rather odd starting with large clans like Miyoshi or Hojo, and finding that neighboring small clans got as many retainers as you do. Historically retainers get really high salaries, and if a clan with only one city could start with half a stack of retainer units, larger clans could have more.

[Archinaught]

Not sure if this is a reported issue or if somehow managed to mess up using the steam workshop or what, but, the pasture chain does not seem to be providing any sort of bonus to cavalry units. I currently have a stable in Yonezawa which should provide a +6 charge +2 morale and +1 melee attack, none of which appear to be adding on.

But I'm loving the mod! I have put tons of time into Shogun 2 and this is probably my favorite version.

[Weierstrass]

Changes V43:
This one is a quite important update were you wont see much changes in content but should impact in gameplay.
I reduced the resources required for some buildings and also improved AI.
-Rebuilt regions borders. Now you get influence and trade only for true neighbours. This will make easier to understand were you get extra unrest. Also this fix issues with trade routes.
-Fixed issues with naval trade. Some trade routes were wrongly placed.
-FIXED AI TRADE SHIP RECRUITMENT. Now AI recruit and will use trade ships to get the nodes!!
-Improvements on how the AI build. Now they should be building smarter. I'll keep working on this one.
-Fixes around some buildings effects that were misplaced.
-Shimazu gets a lumbercamp now! Be happy.

[shamelessamurai]

thank you for this COMPLEX mod; i've install it and uninstall it for 2 times now .... 3 is gold ... i'll try to be patient and overcome all the unhappiness from my clan , is harder than in RL XD

[Weierstrass]

Not sure if a compliment or a rant XD. You can always use the unrest submod.

[shamelessamurai]

Not sure if a compliment or a rant XD. You can always use the unrest submod.

i'm serious , i like the style with lots of towns and special buildings (like in Empire TOW); the only downside is that it's very slow paced , but with the unrest and unit replenishment sub-mods i managed to speed things a little bit ; one curiosity : the clans starting position and provinces resemble with those from "Nobunaga ambition ", am I wrong ?!

[Jean-Louis Le Gueux]

Man, just thank you. This mod is a true gem. I've been playing EB Rome, Medieval 2 and its many mods, Darthmod Napoleon, Darthmod Shogun 2, Dei Rome 2 and honestly, without the intent to bash others' work, never have I had such a good time with a total war game than with your mod. It is simply amazing : the Cai, Bai, the new ways to manage the building of your province, the new maps…awesome. I know I'm all compliments, but I couldn't just not write about my experience with this mod.

The pace is perfect: you start with almost nothing, your town very empty in terms of infrastructures and with very weak buildings to build in the beginning. But the more you develop one kind of building the more apparent its usefulness.

Cai is awesome : I want my neighbouring enemy to make peace, they refuse, so next turn I move full stack into their territory and guess what? They promptly ask for a peace treaty. Same with another clan : we're both equal in power, and after a decisive battle where most of their troops are destroyed, and their land then emptied of soldiers, they ask for a disadventageous peace (vassal). Minor problem though: I keep seeing full stack ennemy armies doing the "yoyo" next to my castles ; they approach very close, then go away, and do it again. Weird…


And the most astonishing of all: the Bai. I almost never lost to the battle ai, in any total war modded game, unless overpowered, and I'm not exaggerating. With your mod, I keep losing, no matter what. Arrows lethality is perfectly balanced (even storming a simple fort with only a couples of enemy archers inside will make your run towards the wall costly), the new groups of soldiers (militia, professionals, veteran professionals samurai, heros) is just great…

The fact that you have to be careful with your losses, for replenishment is low and recruitement so costly and long, the constant need to keep an eye onto happiness of the population to avoid an uprising of soldiers that is lethal if your main army is away, the need to choose with care what the region will focus onto (military or economical) because of the restricted slots (unless expanding the town, which is costly)…

Man, so many things to say. In short, it is a gem of a mod, very nicely balanced, and apart for a few extra added thing on my part (new maps from Strongholds Of The Samurai, slower movement speed for units in battle), I love it (as you may now have guessed ) So a huge thank you friend for it! A real joy. I wish you would put your skill into modding Rome 2 XD but this one is enough for now I guess

[sgj2346]

Hi, i just got into the mod and was wondering what's up with the family tree? I started a campaign as the Shimazu and noticed unlike the vanilla game the sons were instead generals and the Daimyo had no wife. Is this the way it's supposed to be or is it a bug??

[Weierstrass]

Man, just thank you. This mod is a true gem. I've been playing EB Rome, Medieval 2 and its many mods, Darthmod Napoleon, Darthmod Shogun 2, Dei Rome 2 and honestly, without the intent to bash others' work, never have I had such a good time with a total war game than with your mod. It is simply amazing : the Cai, Bai, the new ways to manage the building of your province, the new maps…awesome. I know I'm all compliments, but I couldn't just not write about my experience with this mod.

The pace is perfect: you start with almost nothing, your town very empty in terms of infrastructures and with very weak buildings to build in the beginning. But the more you develop one kind of building the more apparent its usefulness.

Cai is awesome : I want my neighbouring enemy to make peace, they refuse, so next turn I move full stack into their territory and guess what? They promptly ask for a peace treaty. Same with another clan : we're both equal in power, and after a decisive battle where most of their troops are destroyed, and their land then emptied of soldiers, they ask for a disadventageous peace (vassal). Minor problem though: I keep seeing full stack ennemy armies doing the "yoyo" next to my castles ; they approach very close, then go away, and do it again. Weird…


And the most astonishing of all: the Bai. I almost never lost to the battle ai, in any total war modded game, unless overpowered, and I'm not exaggerating. With your mod, I keep losing, no matter what. Arrows lethality is perfectly balanced (even storming a simple fort with only a couples of enemy archers inside will make your run towards the wall costly), the new groups of soldiers (militia, professionals, veteran professionals samurai, heros) is just great…

The fact that you have to be careful with your losses, for replenishment is low and recruitement so costly and long, the constant need to keep an eye onto happiness of the population to avoid an uprising of soldiers that is lethal if your main army is away, the need to choose with care what the region will focus onto (military or economical) because of the restricted slots (unless expanding the town, which is costly)…

Man, so many things to say. In short, it is a gem of a mod, very nicely balanced, and apart for a few extra added thing on my part (new maps from Strongholds Of The Samurai, slower movement speed for units in battle), I love it (as you may now have guessed ) So a huge thank you friend for it! A real joy. I wish you would put your skill into modding Rome 2 XD but this one is enough for now I guess

Hey thanks for the cool post. It's nice to read about people happy bout the mod. Well about modding r2 .. My pc is crap and the time required is too much. So i wont go further than this mod.

[Weierstrass]

Hi, i just got into the mod and was wondering what's up with the family tree? I started a campaign as the Shimazu and noticed unlike the vanilla game the sons were instead generals and the Daimyo had no wife. Is this the way it's supposed to be or is it a bug??

If the age is enought then it's okay. Also wife might be dead. If sons have different surname then they are adopted. The historical researcher knows the most about it. But if it's that way in the mod it's mostly correct (has been checked several times)

[sgj2346]

Ok thank you for your reply but i have encountered a bug. It happens on Sashiki castle in sagara clan when i go over their fort the units get stuck on the edge like they're in quick sand and can't move. Here is a photo of the bug hope it could be fixed. I tried it twice already and it happens on every side i try to go over.

[sgj2346]

Got another question sorry bit of a beginner at this mod but i'm having difficulty being able recruit some units that appear on the buildings but not appear on the recruitment tab. For example I built a samurai hall but I can't recruit any katana samurai. Is there something else i need to build or is it some art i need?

[Jean-Louis Le Gueux]

Hey thanks for the cool post. It's nice to read about people happy bout the mod. Well about modding r2 .. My pc is crap and the time required is too much. So i wont go further than this mod.

I was just teasing I know this is huge work, even more so when you’re a one man army. So, thanks again, I've been playing it for more than a week and still am impressed at the quality of it. Never had I experience such a good diplomacy in a mod for example, the enemy proposing peace treaties when completely crushed and the opposite, asking for payments when threatening your castle with their armies. I really never enjoyed so much a tw game before keep up the good work!



But there is something a bit sad that I noticed which is the lack of variety for some units: for example, the so-called heavy armored Mogami samurais just look like the same as any other samurais, whom in their turn look like the same as other veteran samurais whom also are copy paste of retainer samurais…lol
Don't know if the "problem" is on my part or if you didn't have the resources to make those units stand out from each other or even if simply intended to be as such, but so much I fell in love with ur mod that I felt I had to change some of the units to give a bit more diversity to the whole thing. I didn’t change those units that already looked ok (well, most of them), only those seeming to be clones. If u want more details, or even my modifications to have a look, don’t hesitate That would be a cool thing to share it with you as a kind of repayment for the fun I have been having with the mod.

[Jean-Louis Le Gueux]

Ok thank you for your reply but i have encountered a bug. It happens on Sashiki castle in sagara clan when i go over their fort the units get stuck on the edge like they're in quick sand and can't move. Here is a photo of the bug hope it could be fixed. I tried it twice already and it happens on every side i try to go over.

Seems like the map is the problem. May I suggest the excellent mod "Strongholds Of The Samurai", which adds many many awesome real castles to the battle maps and whose author made compatible with MoSS? I'm currently using it and siege battles are pretty awesome. Weierstrass, maybe u should include a link to it in ur description; it's a cool mod to use in tandem with yours