export_descr_character_traits: Section 1.1.1 - Primary Triggers - ICE Rating - - CharacterComesOfAge : Trigger random_birth_1_ICE_Trigger_Initialize2

Hi, I volunteered to help look at the export_descr_character_traits file in the recruitment thread (of the other forum) today. I noticed people were complaining about having crappy generals there, and how when they come of age they are Sharp/Uncharismatic/Lagarous. I believe I have found my first bug! This is a re-post from a bug report I left there. Let me know if title's like this are inappropriately long, it servers to point out exactly where the bug is. When determining the Intelligence/Charisma/Energy (ICE) when "CharacterComesOfAge" there are a couple of conditions in the initializations (as opposed to OfferedForMarriage or OfferedForAdoption etc, where there are no conditions). Intitialize1 has: "Condition Trait NaturalIntelligence < 1" Which will be true for any fresh general. Then he is given +1 to each of Intelligence/Charisma/Energy as well as being assigned random Intelligence (rendering him likely Sharp in ICE) But, Intitialize2 has: "Condition Trait NaturalCharisma < 1" Which will always be false becase he was granted +1 Charisma in Intitialize1. Hence the Character is not granted the random Charisma/Energy (rendering him Uncharismatic/Lagarous. (Likely a copy paste bug, like I expected to find in places). I suggest: 1) Remove the Conditions of Triggers: random_birth_1_ICE_Trigger_Initialize1 (Condition Trait NaturalIntelligence < 1) random_birth_1_ICE_Trigger_Initialize2 (Condition Trait NaturalCharisma < 1) 2) Change Condition of random_birth_1_ICE_Trigger_Initialize2 to something that will be true, like: Condition Trait NaturalCharisma < 5

You need to fix your post. Anyway, we should really have a single thread where people can post trait fixes(this is the one thing that I hate about having two forums, I know the .org one is the official one but this one seems to be a lot more active so I've been posting here mostly). I did a couple ones over in the modding subforum:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...r-Traits/page5

Direct quote from .org forum:

Hi, I volunteered to help look at the export_descr_character_traits file in the recruitment thread today. I noticed people were complaining about having crappy generals, and how when they come of age they are Sharp/Uncharismatic/Lagarous. I believe I have found my first bug!

When determining the Intelligence/Charisma/Energy (ICE) when "CharacterComesOfAge" there are a couple of conditions in the initializations (as opposed to OfferedForMarriage or OfferedForAdoption etc, where there are no conditions).

Intitialize1 has:
"Condition Trait NaturalIntelligence < 1"
Which will be true for any fresh general. Then he is given +1 to each of Intelligence/Charisma/Energy as well as being assigned random Intelligence (rendering him likely Sharp in ICE)

But,
Intitialize2 has:
"Condition Trait NaturalCharisma < 1"
Which will always be false becase he was granted +1 Charisma in Intitialize1. Hence the Character is not granted the random Charisma/Energy (rendering him Uncharismatic/Lagarous). (Likely a copy paste bug, like I expected to find in places).

I suggest one of the following options:
1) Remove the Conditions of Triggers for :
random_birth_1_ICE_Trigger_Initialize1 (i.e. Condition Trait NaturalIntelligence < 1)
random_birth_1_ICE_Trigger_Initialize2 (i.e.Condition Trait NaturalCharisma < 1)

2) Change Condition of random_birth_1_ICE_Trigger_Initialize2 to something that will more likely be true, like:
Condition Trait NaturalCharisma = 1

I suspect these conditions exist because before this initialization, there are predefined characters who have specific ICE settings already. So fix 2 should be what is used.

Yea... I have no edit button... sigh.

I have a feeling I will do a lot of work on the traits and triggers file. There is a bug concerning traits that has been dealt with differently in different areas of the file, and probably a few more inconsistency bugs like the one I am attempting to post here (with no formatting). I want to standardize how the file deals with the bug (will take eons), but I need to get confirmation from the main devs how I should be approaching it since I feel they way they are dealing with it (ie not having any AntiTrait's) is bad (only because they are setting NoGoingBackLevels in a way I feel is inappropriate, i.e. very low thus forcing a general to forever keep that trait with it unable to be lowered after going past the point of no return i.e. Threshold=NoGoingBackLevels).

I will attempt to repost my bug report below. Apparently I need post count of 10 before I can post and edit normally, so I will endeavor to get there.

Ah yes, the nogoingbacklevel. It seemed to be the bug causer in the traits I was looking.

The bug I have highlighted here will result in all generals that come of age getting traits down the line because they will all have low Charisma and Energy.

I have no idea who is working on traits, how they are going about it. We definitely need a thread to get organized to agree on how traits will be coded to avoid bugs

Originally Posted by Kull

There's basically nobody on the team right now who understands and is working traits. There won't be anything more than incremental changes - if that - until we get a volunteer who has skills in this area. Until then, anything people want done, they'll have to do themselves.

This post seems to indicate that you're the only one.

I have a question. There are traits and anti-traits (for example, Disciplinarian / BadDisciplinarian). Is it possible for a FM to advance in both categories at the same time? i.e, have both = 1, or more.

Well Disciplinarian and Bad Disciplinarian are not antitraits, so depending on the triggers you could have them both at the same time(I haven't checked all the triggers). But no you can't have two traits that are each others antitraits at the same time.

Aren't they opposite of one another? Can you give an example of a pair that are trait/antitrait?

Yeah it would make sense if they were, but they need to have the antitrait flag in the file. They might have been antitraits in vanilla mtw2, but they're not in EB2. One example would be the Patrician and Plebeian traits. They are each others antitraits and so you can't have both on the same character at the same time.

As far as I know there is a bug with antitraits as well, which might explain why you wouldn't want to use it too freely.

There are two ways to reduce or eliminate a trait. You can award points to an antitrait, or you can award negative points to the actual trait.

In RTW, when you award negative points to a trait and it gets eliminated or reduced in level, its effects remain. You must use antitraits to avoid this bug.

In M2TW, when you award points to an antitrait and the original trait gets eliminated or reduced in level, its effects remain. You must not use antitraits to avoid this bug.

It's really stupid. Completely facepalm.

Wow - that *is* really stupid. Thanks for the tip, bovi, and hope you don't mind that this thread has been co-opted as a "export_descr_character_traits.txt general" thread. I think I prefer the M2TW system, but it seems you have to take care not to start developing generals who have both the official trait and the effective anti-trait...

Also, it sounds like the only case to *ever* use anti traits in M2TW is when you are talking about a trait that won't be adjusted from one to another. I.e, Plebian/Patrician as mentioned above -- a Plebian will never become a Patrician, and vice versa, so that's nothing to worry about. On the other hand we have "Good Trader" with antitraits "BadTrader" and "Ignorance" -- that seems like it could cause a problem.

Can points & thresholds be negative?

Also, I found this:


yikes!...will that cause problems, or is it OK?

No, it won't cause any trouble.
1.- The line is commented out: everything after ";" in a iven line is skipped by the engine and is not read as a code. These comments are there just to help other people editing the file to orient themselves in it
2.- All victory condition traits are just placeholders - the game mechanics are not finished yet for them to play any role besides just providing the human player a bit of idea of where his faction historically has, or plausibly might have, expanded. They are not even done yet for all factions.

I went through the file but its not exactly self explanatory as I'm no expert on scripting but I sure appreciate the importance of this. Every move we make in the game will have a effect on the character and its development which essentially brings this game to life. Appreciate what you guys are doing to make it better.