Unites have lost some abilities

[Sister Fister]

I've noticed that some units have lost certain abilities, such rapid reload for slingers, or sword band loosing the shield wall and frenzy ability (not sure if that's what it is called but you can view it here right next to shield wall

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Also spear men seem to have lost the ability to anti cavalry tactics.

Was this removed cause of balance issues? Or will it come later on with more advanced techs and units / more developed generals.

Thanks!

[Sister Fister]

Pardon my typo in the title.

[IlluminatiRex]

I do know that part of CA's re-balancing was taking out some of the unit abilities.

Whether or not that was a good idea is subjective.

[Mabzie55]

This really pisses me off.
Suebi really got nerfed by this.

Shield Screen was taken away from almost every unit aside from like 2 high-tier units. It's absolute garbage and they better patch that back in. Standing shield to shield is a very simple concept, and even if they wanted to take it away from levies, fine... But even mid-tier spear brothers/spear-women don't have it. If they do that, may as well take phalanx away from Greeks... Makes about as much sense.
Headhunt/frenzy were also removed from units that should have them. If I remember correctly wolf warriors had both, now only have frenzy.
A bunch of other elite units have lost abilities.
Slingers, Longbows and Cimbri Bowwomen have lost rapid fire, and it makes sense that people could fire faster in exchange for getting tired faster-- just stupid that it was removed.
But the main thing for me is that almost every unit that had shield screen lost it, which is just BS. I can understand the levies losing it, but not mid-tier units.
CA- please fix this!

[riskymonk]

Anti cavalry tactics was considered ridiculous because they were spears after all who's sole purpose was to protect the flanks.

Those that have lost shield screen, is it in automatic whenever units stand still? Like guard mode?
Rapid fire was silly to remove as this was realistic and in no way magical.

I don't know about frenzy and headhunt. How do you tell your most fanatical, undisclipined troops to stay calm or go bererk whenever you want. That was probably considered a magical ability.

[EternalSilence]

I've noticed that some units have lost certain abilities, such rapid reload for slingers, or sword band loosing the shield wall and frenzy ability (not sure if that's what it is called but you can view it here right next to shield wall

Also spear men seem to have lost the ability to anti cavalry tactics.

Was this removed cause of balance issues? Or will it come later on with more advanced techs and units / more developed generals.

Thanks!

1) Its a good things those stupid 'buffs for a button' are being removed.
Have you ever know an army that just are able to buff their attack rate * 2 by pressing some magic button?
i'm very pleased those buffs are removed and we now have a more balanced game for it. It was utterly annoying and most of the community was outraged by those 'buffs by pressing a button'-policy.

2) Community hated it, it was also never in any other Total war game

3) Spear dont need some 'anti cavalery tactic', cause a good spear unit wil mostly win from horses in general

4) No, it's removed from the game, so it will not come back with some advance tech.

[Condottiere 40K]

I always thought it was a test run for Warhammer.

[Mithridates VI]

I like that some of them were removed. For example "use the whip", "cavalry counter tactics" and "trample" were silly.

[Mabzie55]

Anti cavalry tactics was considered ridiculous because they were spears after all who's sole purpose was to protect the flanks.

Those that have lost shield screen, is it in automatic whenever units stand still? Like guard mode?
Rapid fire was silly to remove as this was realistic and in no way magical.

I don't know about frenzy and headhunt. How do you tell your most fanatical, undisclipined troops to stay calm or go bererk whenever you want. That was probably considered a magical ability.

No, it's not automatic.
It is a formation.

And in my post above I've described why rapid fire is not "magic".

Frenzy and headhunt are in the game still, just fewer units have them.

[the lightning legion]

trample can go for all I care but removing formations is a step to far

[Evan MF]

Finally some sense to remove the 'push this button to buff' abilities. This isn't a MOBA and shouldn't aspire to be.

[GoTW Kubee]

Finally some sense to remove the 'push this button to buff' abilities. This isn't a MOBA and shouldn't aspire to be.

Exactly. Abilities which modify unit behaviour/stance and make them perform in a different way, such as phalanx, testudo, flaming arrows, loose and guard formations, etc. are good as they actually enhance gameplay by giving you lots options for controlling your army and using it in different ways. 'Special abilities' which just modify stats for a period of time just serve to make the game more about who has the best units rather than about who has the best positioning and tactics. As I think you said a while back, TW should always be a spatial rather than a statistical game.

[Altimis]

Well, I don't feel its good idea to remove those skills because they will mostly weak without those one

[kambiz]

If all those magical especially abilities that their goal was to nerf unit states are gone then this is good news indeed

[DeliCiousTZM]

I don't understand people who are arguing against more tools and more gameplay features on the grounds that "This isn't an arcade game" . There is a limit on how many buttons you should have available to push, Rome II however didn't even come close to that.

Again, want to give good feedback? Focus on what can be added not butchered, for preferences or some idiotic notion that one thing isn't supposed to be another thing. Rome II is nothing like DOTA.

[Mabzie55]

2) Community hated it, it was also never in any other total war game

Uh... Yeah it was?
Shogun 2?
Fall of the Samurai?

[Mabzie55]

trample can go for all I care but removing formations is a step to far

Seriously, removal of shield screen from most units almost broke the game for me.

[Raimeken]

It's great, I no longer have to maniacally push the "use the whip" button to magically make my swordsmen stronger . Special abilities are stupid, most of them made your soldiers dead tired after a brief bonus which is a huge balancing problem. Soldiers should get tired from long drawn out battles, not from magic abilities on the battlefield.

Shogun 2?
Fall of the Samurai?

Not to the degree that Rome 2 has it. And each "special ability" was used on a specific type of unit, Monks got the Warcry ability and Nodachi Samurai had Banzai. No other samurai units shared this with them. And in FoTS at least abilities like suppression fire had a downside other than "fatigue".

[Mabzie55]

It's great, I no longer have to maniacally push the "use the whip" button to magically make my swordsmen stronger . Special abilities are stupid, most of them made your soldiers dead tired after a brief bonus which is a huge balancing problem. Soldiers should get tired from long drawn out battles, not from magic abilities on the battlefield.



Not to the degree that Rome 2 has it. And each "special ability" was used on a specific type of unit, Monks got the Warcry ability and Nodachi Samurai had Banzai. No other samurai units shared this with them. And in FoTS at least abilities like suppression fire had a downside other than "fatigue".

Well firstly almost every ability I have used in R2 had a downside, and many made perfect sense.
Shield wall/shield screen - slowed or immobilized unit
Frenzied charge - lowers melee defense, fatigue
Headhunt - lowers melee defense
Frenzy - this is one that only causes fatigue, the exception, not the rule.

This are in no way " magic"... They are simply formations or styles of fighting. It makes sense that you can tell an elite unit to try to kill as many as possible, regardless of losses... Or to rush in at full speed regardless of losses and it happens IRL!

Then you have fear-based abilities like curse or the passive "fear"... This is also a real thing as units can, through action, appearance, or sound- strike fear into enemies... So that's also not magic.

As far as cavalry counter-tactics, I was under the impression that was an order to (as the units yell when you select the command) to kill the horses, rather than go for the men on the horses. I'm pretty neutral on if this should be in the game, but it hardly seems like magic to me.

Some of the general's abilities are stretching it, but nothing that breaks immersion or is even " magic" as most of it is just inspiring your men to fight better or for longer in one way or another.

So yeah... I don't understand how people can claim this is magic.
Or criticize Rome, but not shogun, when most of the abilities are basically the same.

[Ambigatos]

I like how they shifted around some abilities. I think it adds more utility. Take some of the "barb" rosters for example. It used to be that almost every unit in their line ( whether it be melee line or spear ) basically had the same abilities. Pretty much all spears had CC and shield screen. This means that the next unit up was basically the same exact unit but just upgraded stats. But now only some units have CC, only some units have shield wall, etc. etc.

I like it this way.