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Thread: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

  1. #621

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    I only read half of this thread so I'm apologising for my uninformedness in advance, but I saw that several people from the anti-Assad pro-West team have clearly stated that Assad himself was responsible for the 2013 chemical attacks, and not the rebel forces.

    Would you please be so kind and explain this video to me then ?
    I'm genuinely interested in your explanations.



    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    What you call them does not change what they have done or continue to do. Nor does them being democratically elected. What the US has done does not excuse Hamas's or Hezbollah's actions.
    If I recall correctly, you're one of the most ardent anti-Assad pro-Westerner here.
    You've previously stated that even the UN concluded that it was Assad who used the chemical weapons in 2013.
    Would you perhaps be so kind and provide some sources ?
    A UN investigator in this video says exactly the opposite of what you're trying to claim:

    Last edited by Aikanár; September 27, 2014 at 01:58 PM. Reason: videos fixed; consecutive postings

  2. #622

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    FSA general:

    "Moderate"
    Still does anybody has a better candidate to win this wat than Assad?
    Don't get me wrong a perfect democratic secular Syria is best but maybe 1% of the rebels fight for this so this will never become reality.

    And nice video were this guy almost says that chemical attack was not from Assad but probably from American? agents operating in Syria
    And in the next video it is confirmed by Carla Del Ponte, I don't think she would lie

    Vanoi please explain me this.
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  3. #623
    Mary The Quene's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    According to the SAA on FB the syrian army has liberated Jobar too. We'll see in the coming hours/day if an independent source can confirm it.
    Veritas Temporis Filia

  4. #624

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmouth View Post
    They can be whatever the they want to be as long as they are not attacking people. The US has never been against Islamism in any form, until it reaches beyond its own borders.

    If people want an Islamist government then they need to vote for it and then be a responsible member of the international community that does not support extremists. If a Syria, without Assad, would ultimately be that, just as it was in Egypt before another Arab strongman overthrew the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, the US would openly support that.
    That's the problem. Maybe the US should make it a policy to only ever support secularist groups. Politically speaking, that might help to prevent some embarrassing failures. But it really is a question of ethics.

  5. #625
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Treize View Post
    Yeah I checked the source ofcourse:
    they are undergoeing vetting. Which means the group is being examined before it is decided if they get weapons or not. The US hasn't planned on giving them anything yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Treize View Post
    http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/19874


    Remember all the Sunni Islamist factions come from the "Salafi" strain.
    This basically means they follow the theologic doctrines of Abdul Wahhab and Ibn Taymiyyah.

    Maybe you should check those out before believing it is a wise idea to support such people.
    The Hazzm movement is not Salfist for the 100th time.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazzm_Movement

    This group does not cooperate with the Islamic Front, and are at war with Al-nusra. they are certainly not a Salafist group.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ehrmahgehrden View Post
    If I recall correctly, you're one of the most ardent anti-Assad pro-Westerner here.
    You've previously stated that even the UN concluded that it was Assad who used the chemical weapons in 2013.
    Would you perhaps be so kind and provide some sources ?
    A UN investigator in this video says exactly the opposite of what you're trying to claim:

    First i didn't claim the UN report condlucded Assad conducted the attacks. I said it hinted it in the report.

    and Carla Dle Ponte might need to look at the UN investigation report. Cause it just casually mentions the origin of the sarin gas used in the chemical weapon attacks came from the Syrian
    Last edited by Vanoi; September 27, 2014 at 04:52 PM.
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    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  6. #626

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    The Government at Turkey is going to the Parliement to get warrant to sent military in Syria.

    In other news, Erdoğan insist that there should be NFZ and Buffer Zone at North Syria. Erdoğan say military movement is not un-option.
    In tribute to concerned friends:
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  7. #627

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    EDIT: I have no clear view on the Turkish politics or foreign diplomacy so i am going to be quiet on that
    Last edited by Flavius Julius Nepos Augustus; September 27, 2014 at 06:33 PM.
    454-480 Western Roman Politics (Article)
    There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. - W. Shakespeare
    We (...) have converted the miracles of science into a chamber of horrors -R. Hull

    USA knew how to gain a victory, but not how to use it - F.J. Nepos
    You will be ruled by either a crown, a clown, or a crook, and democracy assures that you won't get the first one.



  8. #628
    dogukan's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    you should stick to Kurds, you cannot really go wrong with them at this point. The "good" future of Middle East lies in Kurdish victory, and now ISIS is putting all its forces on Kurds in Kobane.
    Turkey is indeed a bit of a weird actor, I kind of don't want Turkey to carry all its "complications" baggage into the region. Because I am pretty sure if Turkey gets involved it would deal more to pacify Kurdish movement there than to deal with ISIS.
    Turkey just does not have the vision Kurdish autonomous region has atm.
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

  9. #629
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by dogukan View Post
    you should stick to Kurds, you cannot really go wrong with them at this point. The "good" future of Middle East lies in Kurdish victory, and now ISIS is putting all its forces on Kurds in Kobane.
    Turkey is indeed a bit of a weird actor, I kind of don't want Turkey to carry all its "complications" baggage into the region. Because I am pretty sure if Turkey gets involved it would deal more to pacify Kurdish movement there than to deal with ISIS.
    Turkey just does not have the vision Kurdish autonomous region has atm.
    they fear Kurds (Turkey). they cant see Kurds can have basic human rights. the intervene is not fo IS is for invading Kurdish Syrians that most of them Love YPG the PKK branch of freedom fighters.
    and no Turkey is an Ally of IS at least for kurdish issue, why to be against them?!
    and also its nice of you told the truth. the only peacful region that could be on middle east is only Kurdistan. look at Iraq! compare Arabian People to Kurds, thats a good example.

    the Turkish Issue is not politic! is RACISM! as Turks hate everyone not only Kurds! Armenians & Greeks & Georgians & Persians & Bulgars &.... everyone around them! and its not only Turkey, but Azerbaijan, Turks of Iran, and other...... i bet if USA was near them they would hate "Americans" too!

    as for turks about us,
    come on its 21th century no more suppression and racism and tyranny of Turks Arabs and Persians can stop our rightful independence,
    Last edited by Aram Kurdo; September 27, 2014 at 07:53 PM.
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  10. #630

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cities...rian_Civil_War

    IS now controls all of Raqqah Province with the FSA holdouts either defecting or fleeing to Aleppo Province.

    Unconfirmed reports the Libyan Jihadist swore allegiance to IS, but some people there are certainly doing so and posting it to youtube. They aren't the only ones.

    Also unconfirmed reports Assad is using Chlorine Gas again.

    Kobane is still holding out, but ISA is crushing the pockets of outer defenders one by one and posting the pictures of captured weapons, marijuana (YPG cash crop) which is then burned, and the usual dead bodies and captured troops. YPG again is claiming ISA is using Abrams Tanks against them, but no picture or video evidence is shown so this is likely a means of excusing their defeats.

    IS has also apparently ordered recently all its fighters and official accounts to stop posting and imposed a total media blackout to go into effect in just a few hours. So this source of info will dry up leaving SOHR and activists willing to risk death.

    Something big is happening in Hasakah Province, a bunch of YPG posters went silent and several videos from ISA showed a fierce battle near Yarubiyah and scores of dead YPG/YPJ fighters. Not much else is known. If its a raid, its apparently successful, if its an anticipated offensive by ISA, then the Airstrikes have had less effect than thought. Turkey will be pleased either way as ISA and YPG are killing each and why break it up.

    Well Obama played into IS hands, he is now on the side of Assad, he won't commit the ground forces to win, the FSA/JAN are pissed as hell over JAN and IF getting hit. YPG is flabbergasted and posting conspiracy theories about US working for IS and crying for aid. The Sunni Audience Obama is trying to convince now have been turned off. The correct response to IS was Turkey's. Stay out of it and let all the factions kill each other into stalemate and exhaustion, then twist arms at the negotiation table.

    Knowing when to do nothing is just as important as knowing when to act.
    Well look at this here, a brewing free-for-all in Western Horn of Africa. What could possibly go wrong...

  11. #631
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    I don't understand where people are getting their information on the Iranian army.



    The woman around 2:00 sure is attractive.
    so what do you say about this:


    and:




    in general:
    http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...in+Syria%21%21


    and this is TOO MUCH INTERESTING: (ISIS Fears KURDISH WOMEN WIth Guns!!)

    lolllll this is Real Kurdish Women! like the Ancient Medes & Scythian Times....

    anyway, see the reality and beauty in Kurds. (Real Kurds)..... now who is terrorist? the Turkish Terror State or we Peaceful people?!

    soon i hope see USA & EU's mistake be removed that they remove PKK from Terrorist list because of some Turkish benefits for USA. like their mistake in dividing middle east and spliting Kurdistan.

    i hope see Freedom & Humanity and Peace in coming years
    Last edited by Aikanár; September 28, 2014 at 05:33 AM. Reason: off-topic (personal reference); videos fixed
    Racists and Fascists Call You Terrorists, Humanity Calls You "FREEDOM FIGHTER"
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  12. #632

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    It made me lol. Reading Vanoi's excuses is interesting. Assad is the lesser evil in this conflict. It akso entertains me to no end when people talk about "moderate" extremists. Its like looking for non racist Nazi.

  13. #633

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    First i didn't claim the UN report condlucded Assad conducted the attacks. I said it hinted it in the report.

    and Carla Dle Ponte might need to look at the UN investigation report. Cause it just casually mentions the origin of the sarin gas used in the chemical weapon attacks came from the Syrian
    Any comment on the FSA commander's words perhaps ?

  14. #634

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Al-Dakhaniyya has been confirmed as liberated a few hours back and the SAA offensive into Jobar and Ain Terma continue. The whole East Ghouta snackbar fiefdom is coming to an end if the snackbars don't retreat in good order from Jobar. If they are destroyed in their pocket, East Ghouta will be liberated in January at the max. Alloush sent all his reserves to Jobar and even withdrew from the strategic Adra district to reinforce Jobar. If those defenders are wiped out, the rebels in East Ghouta will be routed and they won't be able to form any more defensive lines here at all. Zamalka, Saqba, Ain-Terma and Arbeen will all fall one after another. These towns that make up 10% of East Ghouta are all located in the Northwestern corner of the area. Everything else is just undefendable farmland which can be quite easily liberated from the directions of recently-liberated al-Maleiha and Adra except for Douma and a couple of towns in the southeastern corner of rebel-occupied East Ghouta.

    After East Ghouta is free, the SAA and the NDF can redeploy at least 20,000 men from there to the rest of Syria. The war against the rebels will be over in around 6-8 more months, and then it's time for the SAA to face ISIS for real this time.

  15. #635
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Senex View Post
    Al-Dakhaniyya has been confirmed as liberated a few hours back and the SAA offensive into Jobar and Ain Terma continue. The whole East Ghouta snackbar fiefdom is coming to an end if the snackbars don't retreat in good order from Jobar. If they are destroyed in their pocket, East Ghouta will be liberated in January at the max. Alloush sent all his reserves to Jobar and even withdrew from the strategic Adra district to reinforce Jobar. If those defenders are wiped out, the rebels in East Ghouta will be routed and they won't be able to form any more defensive lines here at all. Zamalka, Saqba, Ain-Terma and Arbeen will all fall one after another. These towns that make up 10% of East Ghouta are all located in the Northwestern corner of the area. Everything else is just undefendable farmland which can be quite easily liberated from the directions of recently-liberated al-Maleiha and Adra except for Douma and a couple of towns in the southeastern corner of rebel-occupied East Ghouta.

    After East Ghouta is free, the SAA and the NDF can redeploy at least 20,000 men from there to the rest of Syria. The war against the rebels will be over in around 6-8 more months, and then it's time for the SAA to face ISIS for real this time.
    Do you have a source for this or any other of your posts? If not, I will have to assume that your information cannot be verified and have to be read with a maximum degree of caution.

  16. #636
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Request a new user name View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cities...rian_Civil_War

    IS now controls all of Raqqah Province with the FSA holdouts either defecting or fleeing to Aleppo Province.

    Unconfirmed reports the Libyan Jihadist swore allegiance to IS, but some people there are certainly doing so and posting it to youtube. They aren't the only ones.

    Also unconfirmed reports Assad is using Chlorine Gas again.

    Kobane is still holding out, but ISA is crushing the pockets of outer defenders one by one and posting the pictures of captured weapons, marijuana (YPG cash crop) which is then burned, and the usual dead bodies and captured troops. YPG again is claiming ISA is using Abrams Tanks against them, but no picture or video evidence is shown so this is likely a means of excusing their defeats.

    IS has also apparently ordered recently all its fighters and official accounts to stop posting and imposed a total media blackout to go into effect in just a few hours. So this source of info will dry up leaving SOHR and activists willing to risk death.

    Something big is happening in Hasakah Province, a bunch of YPG posters went silent and several videos from ISA showed a fierce battle near Yarubiyah and scores of dead YPG/YPJ fighters. Not much else is known. If its a raid, its apparently successful, if its an anticipated offensive by ISA, then the Airstrikes have had less effect than thought. Turkey will be pleased either way as ISA and YPG are killing each and why break it up.

    Well Obama played into IS hands, he is now on the side of Assad, he won't commit the ground forces to win, the FSA/JAN are pissed as hell over JAN and IF getting hit. YPG is flabbergasted and posting conspiracy theories about US working for IS and crying for aid. The Sunni Audience Obama is trying to convince now have been turned off. The correct response to IS was Turkey's. Stay out of it and let all the factions kill each other into stalemate and exhaustion, then twist arms at the negotiation table.

    Knowing when to do nothing is just as important as knowing when to act.
    Intervention is wrong because it will help extremist elements. - 2011
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  17. #637
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    So slowly, but in the rep-sheat of TWC's mudpit that itself is very extrordinary and therefore explenatory how wrong they are on this issue and when time comes will reveal itself on all sorts of other issues.

    Prolly to late though, while the world depends on American popular support pulling the carpet underneath from what is now their clear and present terrorist super-power.
    Last edited by Aikanár; September 28, 2014 at 05:35 AM. Reason: off-topic (personal reference)
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

  18. #638

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Obama is officially a worse president than Bush.
    Bush in all his stupidity had clear objectives and a clear strategy, he was pretty much at war with the Muslim world and didn't give a crap about it.
    Obama wanted to change all of this. He wanted to be at war with the Muslim war while pretending he was on the side of Muslims, arming terrorists and supporting revolution all over the Middle East. Now they are all turning on him and he's responsible for having unleashed the worse threat since Nazi Germany. What a majestic failure.

  19. #639

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Request a new user name View Post
    The correct response to IS was Turkey's. Stay out of it and let all the factions kill each other into stalemate and exhaustion, then twist arms at the negotiation table.

    Knowing when to do nothing is just as important as knowing when to act.
    You mean, sit by and wait while IS commits genocide. After all, you'd be the first to agree that they're the most successful of the factions involved. Thank you for showing everyone your true colours.

  20. #640
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    Obama is officially a worse president than Bush.
    Bush in all his stupidity had clear objectives and a clear strategy, he was pretty much at war with the Muslim world and didn't give a crap about it.
    Obama wanted to change all of this. He wanted to be at war with the Muslim war while pretending he was on the side of Muslims, arming terrorists and supporting revolution all over the Middle East. Now they are all turning on him and he's responsible for having unleashed the worse threat since Nazi Germany. What a majestic failure.
    I see it differently. I see it as two sides of the same medal. Where Bush had nearly a decade of bad-cop policy, while Obama used good-cop policy, which was much needed as the American populace had more than enough of the Bush era.

    The US deepstate needed a new more friendly face, as much as it needed before the boots on the ground to effectively get rid of Saddam.

    I dont think that the Obama policies are so much on Obama's behalf. I think he was the right man at the right time to enter a new stage of drone warfare and twitter revolutions, and where the during the Bush era pesky American oppositional left would be lured under the Obama umbrella with some minor goodies like gayrights and what resembles but still is inactive healthcare reform(Etc). All so real bread and butter issues like the financial-system or the surveillance state are left untouched.

    I also think he played an important and succesful role in undermining Europe. As dire as the 2008 situation was for the US, as well USA has now settled itself in this new era, very effectively using financial warfare, twitter revolutions, and PR to weaken their competition and make them essentially client-states who work now against their own interests and on American behalf.

    USA wouldnt have survived another Bush.
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

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