turn 160

**mr.playa** · September 11, 2014, 08:32 AM

so i have been playing this mod for a while

i finally taken all the river lands
and besieging nanman last city
i have taken hanzhong and toke a defesive stand in there
i had to give up the entire jing province for wu

too much stacks

now taking a defensive stand in fuling and it a hell of a fight in this area i have destroyed like 27 full stalks for wu in the last 50 turns

and so for am holding
its pretty fun game
put i wanted to suggest a few things for u guys to consider in the next update
make a limit on scholars and diplomats
there so many of them on my map

also if u guys can add a little diversity to troop trees for each province

the large number of stalks
after fighting too many battles and its always the same enemy troops
you will get bored eventually and start auto resolving every battle
i know in china there were not that diversity in units
put still its annoying to have to face the same army the entire game
and i was wondering why u guys did not add chariots
i know they were used in the three kingdoms era

love your work guys
and i hope u consider these suggestions

peace

**sickNsane** · September 11, 2014, 03:03 PM

Chariots were actually mainly used prior to the fall of the han and all that, but i agree they should be used because many rebel units and barbarians would still use the outdated weaponry. As far as unit versatility, well like with Shogun 2 units of the same country wouldn't vary that much, the small variations in training which already affect the stats would be the main extent of that. One thing that could be done is to make the different factions build armies in a particular way I.E, Wu using mostly bow and sword units and cao would be spear and crossbow heavy etc.
As far as the huge number of stacks and agents, these have been addressed and they are working on fixes for us.

**Seether** · September 11, 2014, 11:32 PM

I'll just respond to specific points you bring up:

- Stacks: The control script should be handling the issue with stacks, for the most part, as the upper-limit of stacks for a faction is now set to about 10. You also won't see 4-city factions with 10 stacks.
- Scholar/Diplomat limit: Scholars are limited to 5 per faction and Diplomats to 3; with 18 factions, that can be a lot at one time, but it is fine for individual factions. We won't be reducing their numbers.
- Troop Diversity: While we are going to add some unique units to a few factions, keep in mind that this mod represents a civil war where armies fought (in almost all regards) in the same exact manner, with the same exact weaponry and tactics. As you said, there wasn't diversity in this time period in China, and similarly we won't create diversity through artificial or ahistorical means, simply for the sake of diversity.
- Chariots: Chariots were, for all intents and purposes, completely superceded by cavalry by the start of our mod. While used for ceremonial purposes and moving important figures to and around the battlefield, as a weapon of war they no longer played a role on the battlefield. The only instance of chariots being used comes from chapter 94 of the novel where Qiang king Cheliji sends Ya Dan and Yue Ji with a huge army, with "iron chariots" (chariots covered with iron plates nailed on) being a part of that army, to attack Shu. However, the novel is mostly fictional (Cheliji, Ya Dan, and Yue Ji are all fictional) and I haven't seen any historical evidence for this (Chen Shou and Pei Songzhi do not mention this). So unless historic evidence can be shown to prove that chariots were used as a legitimate weapon of war during the Three Kingdoms, we won't even consider adding them.

**mr.playa** · September 12, 2014, 08:08 PM

great reply

and thanks for the effort

as for the unit diversity
will maybe at least u can work on creating different looks for each faction units
instead of just different colors
and the addition of special units is certainty a good start

as for the stalks problem
here are some screens for small factions

dunno if that is normal or not

**sickNsane** · September 12, 2014, 08:19 PM

Thx for posting the pics, i couldn't screenshot in my game for some reason but as mentioned above they are fixing this issue. The max for even a very large faction will be like 10 stacks and small factions with like 2-4 territories wont be able to maintain 10 stacks so will have probably have like 1-4 i would assume.

**Liu Xuan De** · September 13, 2014, 03:29 AM

Chariots were already completely useless in the early Han Dynasty, think about it, during the reign of Han Wu Di, the Han Dynasty had to contend with the horses of the nomadic Xiong Nu. Chariots therefore were used as command platforms and special cases like the one Seether mentioned (another instance is Wei Qing's use of armoured chariots in the battle of Mobei)- the latest film adaption of Romance of Three Kingdoms portrays this VERY incorrectly (along with many many many other historical inaccuracies) so if you want to watch Romance of the Three Kingdoms, watch the 1995 I cannot stress how superior it is to the newer one despite the newer one's extensive budget.

Though it would be cool to see a ZhuGe Liang on a chariot

**cheesegrader** · September 13, 2014, 05:59 AM

Originally Posted by Liu Xuan De

Chariots were already completely useless in the early Han Dynasty, think about it, during the reign of Han Wu Di, the Han Dynasty had to contend with the horses of the nomadic Xiong Nu. Chariots therefore were used as command platforms and special cases like the one Seether mentioned (another instance is Wei Qing's use of armoured chariots in the battle of Mobei)- the latest film adaption of Romance of Three Kingdoms portrays this VERY incorrectly (along with many many many other historical inaccuracies) so if you want to watch Romance of the Three Kingdoms, watch the 1995 I cannot stress how superior it is to the newer one despite the newer one's extensive budget.

Though it would be cool to see a ZhuGe Liang on a chariot

there were chariots units, its just wasn't use by the Han population.

yea I agree 1995 version is way better, but I believe if I recall correctly in the newer series only yuan shao used chariots then again it chariot fell out of used around end of western Han but maybe yuan shao had some laying around? lol he is filthy rich he could afford it

**Liu Xuan De** · September 13, 2014, 06:21 AM

War Chariots (Single Axle) were pretty much non-existant in the Han Dynasty esp the Mid-Late era. Double Axles were used throughout history for transportation purposes.

And no alot of battles shows the use of chariot in the new version, for instance the major battle of the Hanzhong Campaign.
1995 Dialogue along beats the new version, and holy crap 1995 Cao Cao BEST portrayal / acting of the character. The Zhou Yu actor in 1995 pissed me off no end, he overdid it way too much

**mr.playa** · September 13, 2014, 08:30 AM

its true i remember watching the episode at the battle of guan du
yuan shao did use chariots in that battle put its was useless for cao cao cavlary were superior
and thats the last time i have seen chariots used in battles
even in the TV series
put i dont know which version u guys are talking about

am currently watching this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb3WUBJa09M

and i totally hated Zhou Yu in this series after admiring him for so long
i think the best zhou YU actor who gave the the character justice was the one
in the red cliff movie

btw
if u guys have know good movies or tv series about this era pls do share them with us

**cheesegrader** · September 13, 2014, 06:08 PM

yea the NEW adaption yuan shao used chariots. the only chariot use during the three kingdom era were by the king cheliji but since hes a novel characters who knows, and the rest are mainly for transportation and carriages.