The U.S is going to war

[Foreign Fruitcake]

As an Aussie living in the U.S for the last 12 years (legally I might add), just watched Obama's ISIS resolution. I'm going to tell you, my experience doing business in the U.S is somewhat jaded for reasons I will not go into. However, and here is the kicker..... don't ever give the Yanks a Cause.... don't ever ever give them a cause and allow them galvanize and focus.As ed up (no offense) in some ways the Yanks are these days... they know how to take it to ya.

Cheers mate.

[IZob]

US and Co. - US won't go in alone.

inb4 someone says: We need boots on the ground. Air Strikes can only go so far.

[snuggans]

just merge this with the current Iraq/ISIL thread, Obama's speech doesn't really warrant a new thread because it is only an escalation of airstrikes and shifting into an offensive manner, 150+ of which have already been carried out throughout past weeks, as well as more advisers and special forces, all acting alongside the Iraqis. it's not like the US is about to invade anywhere

[Simon Cashmere]

my experience doing business in the U.S is somewhat jaded for reasons I will not go into.

I actually found americans to be better than most. Try doing business in Asia... Although if something is pure scam, the scammers in America are very sophisticated.

Obama doesn't know what he's doing, just giving speeches. Unless he sends troops, a lot of troops to the Middle East which he won't do, it will be just as messed up as it always was, and will be messed up again as soon as they leave.

[Ciabhán]

That's not particularly true Simon. Any progress to be made is better off served by special operations units than by infantry brigades.

Unless one means to leave a permanent and powerful garrison sending line units makes no sense. This type of conflict is better fought with scalpels(and bombs). Not hammers.

The Middle East cannot be fixed by outside influence. It needs to be allowed to fix itself. Sadly allowing it to do so would create an environment that endangered too many people outside the region. Putting out small fires over and over again is considered better than digging a flame break and hoping the wind doesn't blow the flames beyond it. It works, short term, but it won't stop new fires from breaking out.

[Eisenherz]

As an American I feel it's pretty stupid to even worry about the Middle East. We spent over a decade in the Middle East this last time and what have we accomplished? Nothing. Their culture can't be magically changed to accept democracy in a day, a month, a year, or even a decade. Besides the idea that you can force such a change on a sovereign people kind of contradicts the whole idea of democracy anyways. The only war that we should fight is one of aggression upon ourselves or any of our major allies in Europe and Asia.

[mrmouth]

This is the hallmark of Obama's military strategy. It has been spelled out and dissected many times since Iraq. We've been watching small teams of guys with sophisticated levels of support have the kinds of successes that this present situation requires. The Iraqis and militias have the numbers needed to be the anvil. Small teams of guys mentoring specific Iraqi and Pesh units, along with airtrikes, can absolutely be a hammer.

But to these guys on the ground, this is absolutely combat. And not just for the US because the Brits are on the ground hunting people too. And the Aussies might not be far behind. Better believe that those governments are watching the response to this in terms of ramping up their operations.


More than that this is the all important reintroduction of the US into the mediator role in Iraq. For all the things we got wrong, we were good mediators. Many Iraqi politicians, on all sides, lost all hope when we were forced out of Iraq. Iraq may never get its sectarian crap settled in a definitive way where they sit down and negotiate a lasting understanding that would defy religious BS. That might just be the reality. But they need a third party with the kinds of connections in global markets that the US has, and can get them in return, if they keep the peace.

If there is anything we learned in Iraq its that even the most pious Iraqi likes money and is willing to sit down and shut up if we toss enough of it at them. Entry into something like World Trade Organization comes after decades of Iraqi peace. The longer that goes on, the longer it becomes the norm. A long enough time goes by and some generations only know that peaceful norm. That's the idea.

First you have to degrade IS or ISIS or whatever the they want to be called (I think we should call them ) in a way similar to that which helped create the foundation for the Sunni awakening. This will be Sunni awakening, part deux.

[hellheaven1987]

This will be Sunni awakening, part deux.

Awakening a final show down with Shiite, you mean?

[Roma_Victrix]

That's not particularly true Simon. Any progress to be made is better off served by special operations units than by infantry brigades.

I couldn't agree more.

That being said, we're also helping Shiite militias that not only fought US troops during the Iraq War, but are now beheading Sunnis in retaliation for Sunnis of the Islamic State beheading Shiites. It's a disaster and we saw that train coming.

As an American I feel it's pretty stupid to even worry about the Middle East. We spent over a decade in the Middle East this last time and what have we accomplished? Nothing. Their culture can't be magically changed to accept democracy in a day, a month, a year, or even a decade. Besides the idea that you can force such a change on a sovereign people kind of contradicts the whole idea of democracy anyways. The only war that we should fight is one of aggression upon ourselves or any of our major allies in Europe and Asia.

You lost me with that last sentence there.

This is the hallmark of Obama's military strategy.

Indeed. People accuse him of being limp-wristed, which he is on perhaps several foreign policy issues for sure, but on this issue he is being quite rigorous and aggressive in a smart and strategic way, without angering Congress or the electorate by sending 5,000 marines into open field combat or sieges. We technically have boots on the ground right now, they're just in an advisory role to the Iraqis and Kurds who are supplying the muscle.

His speeches are aggravating, though, in that they make it sound like he's not doing much of anything at all, just giving us platitudes. I'll assume the best and just interpret this as him not giving away secrets to the enemy by making all of his plans public.

That being said, everyone should pause at his recent statements that seem to mirror that of Bush, supported by yahoos like the lawyer John Yoo who convinced Bush that he had unitary executive power that could circumvent the authority of Congress. That is not a good development for our country when our Constitution says only the Congress can declare war.

First you have to degrade IS or ISIS or whatever the they want to be called (I think we should call them ) in a way similar to that which helped create the foundation for the Sunni awakening. This will be Sunni awakening, part deux.

Your posts are so entertaining. Please, don't ever change.

[Mayer]

You lost me with that last sentence there.

why? because he doesn't want that the USA plays a worldpolice?

[Roma_Victrix]

why? because he doesn't want that the USA plays a worldpolice?

Oh, I thought he was suggesting bombing some places in Europe and Asia.

[DarthShizNit]

[wulfgar610]

America doesn't stand a chance this time around. What they are trying to go against is something highly motivated, unlike anything they've met in Iraq before. America is not one of the smarter super powers that have cropped up in history.

[Condottiere 40K]

The Iraqis have to figure out how to live amongst themselves, and having a common enemy will help.

Sending in combat brigades is a sledge hammer approach to cracking a nut, the locals can supply the numbers all they need is the tools, direction and some backbone.

The Kurds have direction and backbone, but not the tools.

The Shias had the tools.

The Sunnis have direction.

[wulfgar610]

The Iraqis have to figure out how to live amongst themselves, and having a common enemy will help.

The common enemy is America as far as all Muslims are concerned. Their presence in that region will only inflame the politics.

[snuggans]

The common enemy is America as far as all Muslims are concerned. Their presence in that region will only inflame the politics.

"all muslims" being whom exactly? fundamentalist, radicalized, suicide-bombing, beheading jihadists? so basically a tiny minority of muslims? are you also including the ones being saved/helped by the US there and those helping the US? or are they fake muslims or something? i'm also guessing muslim american and european citizens are also not in your very exclusive definition of muslim. you literally sound like al-Zawahiri, congratulations

[Vilkas09]

americans enjoy violence. It is a part of their culture. Both in Vietnam and Iraq they raped and killed thousands of civilians just for fun. Sick people.

[Tiberios]

The OP offers an insufficient basis for a discussion. Furthermore the subject is already covered by at least one thread. As a result, thread closed.