Retraining Crusader Units

**VaeVictis** · October 29, 2006, 10:47 AM

As I was watching on of the gameplay movies, I noticed that the player recruits crusader units just like mercs in RTW.

I was curious if you will be able to retrain units such as the Knights Templar, etc. at a settlement once it has been taken by crusade.

I noticed on the original MTW that you could not.

**KaerMorhen** · October 29, 2006, 10:52 AM

In my opinion each catholic faction should have ability to recruit Templars/Hospitallers due all the time when a crusade is beign lunched by that faction.

**HoeHeetdieKnakkâh** · October 29, 2006, 11:11 AM

but you cant use them against other catholic factions atleast it shouldn't be in my opinion

**Cha0sMarin3** · October 29, 2006, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by HoeHeetdieKnakkâh

but you cant use them against other catholic factions atleast it shouldn't be in my opinion

You can use them against catholic factions that are excomunicated. As far as i know you can only use the crusader army against the faction you have declared a crusade at or if the army gets attacked by another faction.

**VaeVictis** · October 29, 2006, 11:29 AM

The question still stands whether you will be able to retrain crusader units or not.

Lets say you go on a crusade to take Acre.

After a battle or two, Acre is yours, but your Hospitallers have taken casualties.

Will you be able to retrain your Hospitaller unit in Acre to replenish their lost numbers or will the retraining only upgrade their armor and weapons?

I didn't like the fact that you could not retrain your crusader units in the original MTW.

**Cha0sMarin3** · October 29, 2006, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by VaeVictis

The question still stands whether you will be able to retrain crusader units or not.

Lets say you go on a crusade to take Acre.

After a battle or two, Acre is yours, but your Hospitallers have taken casualties.

Will you be able to retrain your Hospitaller unit in Acre to replenish their lost numbers or will the retraining only upgrade their armor and weapons?

I didn't like the fact that you could not retrain your crusader units in the original MTW.

Well, if you recruit them as mercenaries, most likely not.

**Markas** · October 29, 2006, 11:47 AM

I don't reckon you can retrain crusaders, and I don't think you should. As 'crusader units' may include Teutonic sergeants, hospitallier foot knights and other 'order' troops it may put you at an unfair advantage if you win the crusade and receive the crusaders.

**alpaca** · October 29, 2006, 01:40 PM

Well, retraining crusader units wouldn't be very historical, would it? I mean, you can merge them with units that came from home, but you shouldn't be able to retrain them in the Holy Land... and most definitely not on the same experience level as was the case before.

It might also make the Crusades easier than they should in fact be.

**Crimson Scythe** · October 29, 2006, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by alpaca

Well, retraining crusader units wouldn't be very historical, would it? I mean, you can merge them with units that came from home, but you shouldn't be able to retrain them in the Holy Land... and most definitely not on the same experience level as was the case before.

It might also make the Crusades easier than they should in fact be.

I think it would be more accurate for the opposite to be true, at least in the case of the two major fighting orders (Hospitallers and Templars). IIRC these orders were created in the Holy Land, during the time of the Kingdom of Jerusalem. If anything, they should be a regional unit, unique to Palestine, Lebanon, and maybe the French and English capitals.

Basically, you should have to take the Holy Land with a Crusade for these units to be available for construction. But that might make for worse gameplay.

**~~Miraj~~** · October 29, 2006, 02:09 PM

I think its best not to be able to retrain crusader units. They are probably going to be quite powerful and they will have a more "awe factor" if they are rarer. Perhaps the best thing is if the Crusader knights have a slow "regeneration" property like generals. Then you can get your crusader knights up to force over time. They are an uber-elite unit and should be rare, no retraining or in-city recruiting - and if they are recruitable in with guild houses then there should be a definite cap on the max number you can have.

**Crimson Scythe** · October 29, 2006, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by mirage41

I think its best not to be able to retrain crusader units. They are probably going to be quite powerful and they will have a more "awe factor" if they are rarer. Perhaps the best thing is if the Crusader knights have a slow "regeneration" property like generals. Then you can get your crusader knights up to force over time. They are an uber-elite unit and should be rare, no retraining or in-city recruiting - and if they are recruitable in with guild houses then there should be a definite cap on the max number you can have.

I think this is the best idea I've heard so far to deal with the Crusader units. It also fits the independent nature of the fighting orders, which were never really a part of any single nation, and were largely self-financed and supplied.

**Crimson Scythe** · October 29, 2006, 01:38 PM

I think you can retrain Hospitallers and Templars, since you can build them with some religious buildings. You would have to have the building built, though, in the city where you want to retrain (duh). Really, the only question is whether or not you can retrain mercenaries, if you can build the same unit anyways. In some RTW mods you could do this, so it is possible, but we'll have to see if CA put the feature in.

Basically, if you recruited Crusader units yourself, and then added them to the Crusade, you can probably retrain them, provided you have the required buildings. Mercenary Crusader units probably can't be retrained.

**talc** · October 29, 2006, 02:54 PM

I think these units are disbanded after taking the province you need in the crusade.

**Cyrus the Virus** · October 29, 2006, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by talc

I think these units are disbanded after taking the province you need in the crusade.

No, I have read you/we get to keep them.
It's a kind of reward

**DeeGamer** · October 29, 2006, 02:55 PM

no im sure you get to keep them.

**~~Miraj~~** · October 29, 2006, 02:58 PM

Auto disbanding them wouldn't be cool either. I mean the Templars went back to Europe and were a serious force to an extent that they were slaughtered en masse by some fearful european rulers. Beside I will eventually play a catholic faction and expect my crusader knights to become my prized uber-experience "sacred" unit. Having these unique one-time units really adds some juice to your army, they'll be like a collectable. I just hope that the Muslim factions have some awsome elite jihad units too.