The Phoenix Rises - The Return of NATO as a major player

[Farnan]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...baltics-russia

With this new Rapid Reaction Force, NATO nations agreeing to return agreed upon spending, and the current emphasis on NATO in the world (its role in the current Iraq fight for example) it seems that NATO has transformed from a Cold War Relic, to a reborn major player. All thanks to two men by the name of Vladmir Putin and Abu Bakr Al- head.

NATO has also became more European in the last decade with a Frenchman named one of the two Supreme Commanders (the French now control the position of Supreme Allied Commander Transition, while an American remains at the SACEUR position).

Do you think NATO will continue its role? And do you think recent events will lead to a possible expansion (say Sweden and Australia joining)

[Roma_Victrix]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...baltics-russia

With this new Rapid Reaction Force, NATO nations agreeing to return agreed upon spending, and the current emphasis on NATO in the world (its role in the current Iraq fight for example) it seems that NATO has transformed from a Cold War Relic, to a reborn major player. All thanks to two men by the name of Vladmir Putin and Abu Bakr Al- head.

NATO has also became more European in the last decade with a Frenchman named one of the two Supreme Commanders (the French now control the position of Supreme Allied Commander Transition, while an American remains at the SACEUR position).

Do you think NATO will continue its role? And do you think recent events will lead to a possible expansion (say Sweden and Australia joining)

The NATO rises!

In all seriousness, Australia might actually consider it, seeing how the country contributed heavily to the NATO led efforts in Afghanistan and elsewhere. Sweden may consider, although being part of the European Union already gives them a protective shield and assured security granted by other member states in the event of an attack (via the mutual defense clause in the Treaty of Lisbon). And you are most certainly correct that NATO countries like France, which for a long period of time left NATO, might take a much more pronounced lead of the organization in the future. In fact, they are already doing so, as you've deftly pointed out!

So long as NATO holds, Russia wouldn't dream of openly attacking a country like Poland, or even Latvia and Estonia. Russia wouldn't even be able to get away with conducting a clandestine "hybrid" war against them, like seen in Crimea and eastern Ukraine.

Also, while everyone should take potential terrorist acts of ISIS very seriously, let's be honest: they're not much of a threat to NATO, as is any country that doesn't even have an air force, not even a navy! ISIS produces almost nothing; they rely on extortion, black market dealing, ransoming, and outright thievery to maintain state revenues and bring in much needed military hardware. They were lucky to steal all that equipment and various vehicles like American Humvees from the Iraqi army as they fled Mosul and other places in northern Iraq this past June. They're not going to be able to duplicate that on a continual basis, though. ISIS should certainly be contained via NATO airstrikes. However, I say let Syria and Iraq deal with them on the ground. There's no point wasting American lives and the lives of people from other NATO countries by sending in more ground troops to Iraq.

[Dick Cheney.]

The NATO rises!

Because somebody had to mention it.

[Roma_Victrix]

Because somebody had to mention it.

Big deal. China and Russia cooperate out of convenience and proximity, and scratch each others' backs on occasion in the global arena when either side needs help, especially at the UN. That hardly makes them natural allies. The Cold War is over (the latter half of which seeing the People's Republic of China becoming aligned with the US against the Soviet Union, ironically), so communism as a binding ideology is no longer relevant. The day that China and Russia sign a mutual defense pact like NATO will be the day I will take back my "big deal" comment and apologize for my shortsightedness. I just don't think that day will ever come to pass, not even a membership in Putin's Eurasian Union with Kazakhstan and Belarus.

[Dick Cheney.]

Big deal. China and Russia cooperate out of convenience and proximity, and scratch each others' backs on occasion in the global arena when either side needs help, especially at the UN. That hardly makes them natural allies. The Cold War is over (the latter half of which seeing the People's Republic of China becoming aligned with the US against the Soviet Union, ironically), so communism as a binding ideology is no longer relevant. The day that China and Russia sign a mutual defense pact like NATO will be the day I will take back my "big deal" comment and apologize for my shortsightedness. I just don't think that day will ever come to pass, not even a membership in Putin's Eurasian Union with Kazakhstan and Belarus.

Not exactly NATO as "collective defense" isn't officially part of its charter, and most of its security apparatus is revolved around border security and counter-terrorism.. but they do perform some pretty nifty war games so its close! Hellheaven makes a good point too about Russia's arms relations with India and Vietnam, India's inclusion sort of ruins any kind of formal Russo-Sino alliance.

Overall though, I don't like it. China + Russia = a lot of military power with plenty of energy resources, capital, and manpower to go around. Apparently the guy who heads this thing too -Dmitry Mezentsev- is another ex-soviet officer with a PH.D in political psychology who used to help run the Russian state media. So yeah, I don't like it.

[Phier]

Putin I think is helping some of the younger Europeans discover some testicular fortitude. Growing up without the cold war makes people forget how tenuous peace can be.

[Stavroforos]

Yes, I think NATO will continue in its of role of containing Russia, but I don't know how effective they will be in non-European threats. The problem Europeans more say in it means that there will be too much squabbling and disagreeing, while before the US could decide what had to be done and could tell NATO to do it.

[ShockBlast]

NATO is just an alliance between USA and a large group of European nations, it`s not an entity.

I do agree that NATO will be far more important for world politics from now on.It will be much better when EU get`s a federal army so that the European side can have more mobility and not rely on US logistics all the time when deployed overseas.

RF had the chance to make NATO irrelevant by collaborating with EU but they chose to f-up a relation built over 20 years.

[Phier]

RF had the chance to make NATO irrelevant by collaborating with EU but they chose to f-up a relation built over 20 years.

They need enemies too.

[ShockBlast]

They need enemies too.

As if they didn`t argue you guys all the damn time about insignificant things like little kids.

They should have gotten a group of friends before picking a fight.

That reminds me of the time when Gorbachev, in 1990 and with the future of Germany at hand, offered the West to have Germany join both NATO and the Warsaw Pact and for Russia to join NATO, but obviously the Americans and Europeans said no because they needed to have an enemy.

Maybe Gorby actually was sincere about it but I doubt the rest of the politicians in USSR would have swallowed it.The west aren`t saints but that doesn`t mean the Russians are.

[Phier]

As if they didn`t argue you guys all the damn time about insignificant things like little kids.

They should have gotten a group of friends before picking a fight.

Relative political isolation I would imagine helps those in power there retain power. If your friends have a lot less corruption or more freedom then you do, your people would start to ask why they don't' have that.

[ShockBlast]

Relative political isolation I would imagine helps those in power there retain power. If your friends have a lot less corruption or more freedom then you do, your people would start to ask why they don't' have that.

RF is not North Korea, once the Ukrainians start some real house cleaning and lower corruption under pressure and encouragement from both EU and US the ordinary Russian will start to wonder why Ukraine can have it and RF not.

Putin should have used this to his advantage to better the country and keep power at the same time.

You are right, prosperity and freedom don`t factor in for a dictator, for some reason I pictured the Shirtless One as a part time patriot.

I am applying critical thinking where none is needed.

[Stavroforos]

NATO is just an alliance between USA and a large group of European nations, it`s not an entity.

I do agree that NATO will be far more important for world politics from now on.It will be much better when EU get`s a federal army so that the European side can have more mobility and not rely on US logistics all the time when deployed overseas.

RF had the chance to make NATO irrelevant by collaborating with EU but they chose to f-up a relation built over 20 years.

That reminds me of the time when Gorbachev, in 1990 and with the future of Germany at hand, offered the West to have Germany join both NATO and the Warsaw Pact and for Russia to join NATO, but obviously the Americans and Europeans said no because they needed to have an enemy.

[Stavroforos]

Well I have a hard time imagining the rest of the USSR would have accepted it since they rose up against Gorby anyway, but I meant it more to show the way the West has been thinking, rather than details in the workings of Russia.

[Vanoi]

I'm still skeptical about the willingness of the European NATO members to go and and fight if they have to. Sure we got a new Rapid Response Force, but are we actually going to use it? Putin isn't going to threaten or try to attack a NATO country. Thats suicide for him. He's only going to continue to mess with Ukraine and other non-NATO countries.

There is a difference between defending a NATO ally then sending your forces to defend a country that isn't part of that alliance. Russia just invaded Ukraine again and all the West did is sit on and watch. What if Russia didn't stop? What if Russia keeps or kept advancing in Ukraine? Where is the "red line" here? Where does the buck stop and we finally say "No Russia you can't do that?" Real consequences, not sanctions.

If NATO's goal is to contain Russia, then NATO is going to have to be willing to use force if necessary. Russia already broke the Founding Act. Getting Ukraine and Georgia to join NATO will isolate Russia, but increasees the chances of a shooting war.

[Condottiere 40K]

The Russians know they can't win in a direct conflict and the after effect of that would be the inevitable disintegration of Russia.

What NATO should do is jump straight to creating forces to combat the next generation of warfare, deniable assets, infiltration, cyber attacks, agents provocateurs, and infowars

[Thorn777]

NATO has also became more European in the last decade with a Frenchman named one of the two Supreme Commanders (the French now control the position of Supreme Allied Commander Transition, while an American remains at the SACEUR position).

Do you think NATO will continue its role? And do you think recent events will lead to a possible expansion (say Sweden and Australia joining)

Thx to the Gaullist party leader and French president being the stepson of Frank Wisner(CIA founding-father) and Olivier Sarkozy(general manager at The Carlysle Group). Takeover of France completed.

Times are good and plentiful. Olivier even hooked up with one of the twins from Full House and some court in Germany ruled that a scrambler on the top of Merkel's office would be illegal.

TTIP next up.

[Heathen Hammer]

NATO is useless organization, whose only practical use is keeping crappy eastern european militaries afloat at the expense of taxpayers in North America. It should be dissolved.
Perhaps EU can have their own military alliance, while America should fight its wars by itself.

[Dromikaites]

NATO is useless organization, whose only practical use is keeping crappy eastern european militaries afloat at the expense of taxpayers in North America. It should be dissolved.
Perhaps EU can have their own military alliance, while America should fight its wars by itself.

Funny how the leaders of the NATO member countries have used your opinion as toilet paper.

Russia is going to have lots of fun, and since Canada is a member of NATO you may be included in that fun.

[Heathen Hammer]

Funny how the leaders of the NATO member countries have used your opinion as toilet paper.

Russia is going to have lots of fun, and since Canada is a member of NATO you may be included in that fun.

I think you'll experience much more "fun", given how the only reason we've included backwards places like Romania is to exploit your resources, get cheap labor and even cheaper cannon-fodder.