Gold Demo Difficulty

[Lugotorix]

First let me say, that this isn't a rant or a complaint. I fully realize that the game will have difficulty settings and that the demo is on very hard or hard battle difficulty. Just interested to see how many people have had similar problems.

After intensive play-testing I can safely say, without shame, that the demonstration is too difficult for my taste. Am I the only one with the courage to admit defeat? C'mon. Don't be afraid. It's easy. Just kiss the royal CA Gold seal and it will all be over. There is peace and solace in my company. It is a happy place where gumdrops fall like rain. Just.....accept it. Acceptance is the first step to recovery you know.
Otumba is a classic case. The AI script is ruthless.
True the odds are overwhelming to start with, but the problems I've had go far beyond being outnumbered and outflanked or my tactical sense. I've tried holding position and I've tried a cavalry rush against the peasants, archers, and spear throwers. I've had good success on the plains and close defeats, but The enemy simply has too many reinforcements, and their troops are of superior quality. The troops you have remaining after the battle on the plain are insufficient to tackle or even sandwich the eagle, jaguar, and generals units that emerge past the hill. It's not morale, morale is fine, it's the death rate.
Heavy cavalry have lost their shock, and withdraw from charges too slowly. It feels like they are fast infantry. Cortez's bodyguard drop like flies. Most of my defeats are resolved by Cortez falling in battle. It's damn difficult to keep him safe and keep the command bonus, considering that ranged units are very effective against body guards. My last battle had a fleeing Cortez go down like a torch in a hail of flaming arrows.
I've had similar problems keeping Henry V safe in Agincourt.
Thoughts and prideful postings of victory screens are welcome.

[Flavius]

Yes, I agree. I'm not the best player, so yes, it is hard. I lost twice, that I have played Otumba, the first was just a masssacre. The second, I lost narrowly, because I had enough troops to finish the rest of the Aztecs off, but Cortez wouldn't withdraw and got killed.

On Argincourt, I was down to 20 archers, 5 billmen, 15 men of king Henry's guard and about 10 dismounted chivalric knights. I was facing 2 fresh, 80 men dismounted chivalric knights. I don't know what happened, but they just happpened to rout and I won the battle. I'm guessing that the time ran out, but the hourglass didn't look like it was empty. Good thing I tried to withdraw all my men or King Henry would have probably died and I would have lost.

[MasterAdnin]

I haven't played it unscripted as of yet, but I have not lost.....not yet at least.

Salaam,
Adnan

P.S.-Don't worry, you'll do better in the real game.

[Sylver]

I love being defeated.

That being said, on Otumba, simply take all three cavalry units and gallop across the map to the Aztec unit on your right. Charge him from the side (The Ai made no attempt to protect him when I did this) and he should be killed rather quickly.

Gather your cavalry and assist your main force. It won't be long until every Aztec unit routs. All you have left to deal with is the Aztecs that come from behind. When I did this, the Aztec reinforcements came right when everyone else routed; my reinforcements had just entered the map when the battle ended, with only 200 losses for me.

[Dooz]

Prideful postings of victory you say?






Gotta' say, when the battle started, I wet myself a little. Didn't think there was any possibility of pulling out a win. Guess I was wrong? The reinforcements I got were a blessing, and indeed my Tlaxkalan allies were necessary instrument in crafting the victory. I'm loving the new terrain as well, setting up musketeers on the little cliff to wreak havoc. Very fun stuff, lasted a good while too, much improvement over RTW of course. Haven't played the battle since that first and only run through, heh. And it does run a lot better than the first demo, but kind of sad to see the blood toned down so much.

[Max!mus Dec!mus Mer!d!us]

I won Agincourt first time on the SE Demo, and lost Pavia, then I installed the Gold demo and won on Agincourt, lost first time on Otumba and then won to my amazement, shortly after I won Pavia aswell.

It is quite hard yes, especially to new players I can imagine, maybe there should have been a difficulty setting for the demo?

[Gaius Julius]

I don't find it very hard... But I believe the settings are on medium for the demo. You are, of course, playing a scripted battle, so it's likely meant to be difficult. A challenge is good for you.

[Lusted]

I've lost Otumba once, and haven't lsot the other battles, though i did come close to losing Agincourt the first time on the Gold demo.

I love the fact the battles are a challenge.

[nodey]

Ive played 2 battles in otumba, the first one being a close defeat, the second a clear victory.
The second time i took the time to position my army closer together.

Both musket units on top of cliffs, fire at will. Swordsmen on each side on guard mode, mercenaries watching swordsmens flank. The enemy didnt try to flank me just rushed head on with wave after wave. I used both my cavalry units together all the time to increase impact of the charges. Charge-withdraw, repeat after each wave hits the infantry. The enemy reinforcements that pop up behind you can be easily routed by your cavalry, as long as you charge them from all directions after engaging one infantry unit with them. The biggest problem was the missile units of the enemy, they were really good at staying out of melee and keep harassing my army (very pleasant improvement). When reinforcements came i moved them to cover my east (enemy general) side while switching all my wounded infantry to cover the west. I think stand ground made a huge difference as i didnt have to micromanage the infantry too much, just focus on moving my cavalry to where its needed.

With that said, it was probably one of the most challenging battles ive had in TW. Very intense.
I cant help but feel sorry for any newcomer to the series. =)

[Censor]

First let me say, that this isn't a rant or a complaint. I fully realize that the game will have difficulty settings and that the demo is on very hard or hard battle difficulty. Just interested to see how many people have had similar problems.

After intensive play-testing I can safely say, without shame, that the demonstration is too difficult for my taste. Am I the only one with the courage to admit defeat? C'mon. Don't be afraid. It's easy. Just kiss the royal CA Gold seal and it will all be over. There is peace and solace in my company. It is a happy place where gumdrops fall like rain. Just.....accept it. Acceptance is the first step to recovery you know.
Otumba is a classic case. The AI script is ruthless.
True the odds are overwhelming to start with, but the problems I've had go far beyond being outnumbered and outflanked or my tactical sense. I've tried holding position and I've tried a cavalry rush against the peasants, archers, and spear throwers. I've had good success on the plains and close defeats, but The enemy simply has too many reinforcements, and their troops are of superior quality. The troops you have remaining after the battle on the plain are insufficient to tackle or even sandwich the eagle, jaguar, and generals units that emerge past the hill. It's not morale, morale is fine, it's the death rate.
Heavy cavalry have lost their shock, and withdraw from charges too slowly. It feels like they are fast infantry. Cortez's bodyguard drop like flies. Most of my defeats are resolved by Cortez falling in battle. It's damn difficult to keep him safe and keep the command bonus, considering that ranged units are very effective against body guards. My last battle had a fleeing Cortez go down like a torch in a hail of flaming arrows.
I've had similar problems keeping Henry V safe in Agincourt.
Thoughts and prideful postings of victory screens are welcome.

It doesn't seem hard at all. In the battle of Otumba I had my reinforcements off chasing a bunch of archers and I still pulled off a win. Similarly I left some troops on the edge of the battlefield after they chased off some routers accidentally, and I still won. It's frustrating at times, the battle of otumba looked to be difficult, but the AI just doesn't press its advantage in numbers. Instead of having the archers do some skirmishing, they could overwhelm my men with a bum rush. The cavalry is really a life saver too on Otumba, after the peasants get scared off by a volley of musketballs, a dual conquistador charge straight through the center of the Aztec line pretty much finishes it. All that's next is a tedious slaughter of what look to be sports mascots.

[Salil]

I can't agree with you on this one.
so far I have yet to lose a scripted battle and I've played all three of them at least 5 times.
the key to winning Otumba is going for their leaders. no need to charge their peasants or missile troops. Just use your cavalry to charge the leaders when the battle is on its peak and make sure you have positioned the rest of your army in a safe enough position to stay alive long enough so your cavalry can do its job. when all leaders are dead, you automaticaly win. I only lost about half my army and made even less casualties among the Aztecs, but hey.. a victory is a victory right?

and FYI.. the demo is on medium difficulty, or so it says under options.

[tr00pa]

quiet hard battle, but here are my results from first time otumba...

http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xxxly6.jpg

i didn't use my gunners very well, nearly all ammo left :hmmm:

[Phaedo]

Try turning "Fire-at-will" mode on. Does wonders, especially if you can keep your musketeers out of melee. Try to thin the ranks of the bodyguards and higher tier Aztec warriors before they hit your lines, will reduce their morale and lessen the effects of attrition.

The Aztecs arriving from the rear caught me off guard my first time; Cortez was in the dust before I even realized that he was under attack. But I prepared for that my second time round, put the wonderfully versatile Pavise Crossbowmen to guard my rear. They managed to stall the flanking force long enough for Cortez to get around them and charge the general.

[chaostheory]

For some weird reason I have no trouble winning in Otumba (Micro Cavalry + Killing the chief ASAP does wonders, hell I even got a heroic victory once), but I have yet to beat Agincourt in Gold demo.

Since the morale has been remodeled and French in Agincourt actually found harder and difficult to route even when yeomens raining down the fire on them...

Any help??

[Flavius]

For some weird reason I have no trouble winning in Otumba (Micro Cavalry + Killing the chief ASAP does wonders, hell I even got a heroic victory once), but I have yet to beat Agincourt in Gold demo.

Since the morale has been remodeled and French in Agincourt actually found harder and difficult to route even when yeomens raining down the fire on them...

Any help??

Don't use fire. It's slower and kills less troops than regular arrows, so in effect, it does less damage to morale than the regular arrows. Also, keep both billmen units, King Henry and a unit of dismounted chivalric knights to stall the flanking cavalry, then finish it off with the 2 or 3 archers units on your left. The French infantry always wipes out my infantry, so once they're deep into your lines, charge them with you archers. You'll do a lot of damage and the infantry should rout.

[verena xeventus]

well im still stumped on Otumba... cant win it for the life of me, although I came close at one point. Im impressed with pavise crossbowmen. Ive only once lost pavia and find it a lot easier on the gold demo than on the original demo.

[swabian]

the demo battles are very good. I can't understand all the grumbling. I think it'll really be a great game, unfiortunately i won't have much time to play it :/

i lost the battle with the english vs french and won the other two btw. i hope this will be standart in harder game settings. the performance was quite ok actually.

[RusskiSoldat]

I actually found it far easier than I thought it would be.
Results were eerily identical to the ones in post 4.
In fact, all three demo battles were tactical victories and strategic defeats for me.
I mean, I won them all, but with 60-75% casualties, my army wouldn't be making any advances without massive reinforcements if a strategic map was involved.

[Lugotorix]

and FYI.. the demo is on medium difficulty, or so it says under options

Thanks for your contributions everyone. I like a challenge also. I considered going straight for the generals in Otumba, but this strategem is ineffective in Agincourt so I decided against it. I think the posts are reflective more of people who've had trouble, keeping quiet, and people who've had success wanting to share that success, which was the point of early part of the topic.

The quote raises the question. What is 'medium' difficulty in the demo? It's certainly harder than 'medium' was in SE. Agincourt's difficulty in Gold is proof of that. The demo is in no way reflective of the final product as far as difficulty is concerned, I'm convinced.
I'm a fairly competant general in Rome (I can win all but the most daunting battles on 'hard' difficulty) Gold seems the most challenging to me out of any I've played. Might be I'm just acclimating to the heavy cavalry shock nerf and decreased effectiveness of flanking. Haven't played as intensively as some who posted.
I have trouble believing people who say they've never lost a battle in Gold though. Especially before they even learned the conditions of the battle.

[Asiriya]

Otumba was really easy i thought, i won it first time with a clear victory, and again with a heroic, though i thought i was going to lose that time. I havent yet played the other two battles on gold, i dindt think there would be too much of a difference, but judging by what you've been saying they sound harder.
On the first demo agincourt was easy and i won every time, PAvia was hard though, and went about 50/50.