[Official] Reform requirements - as at 2.3

[Legion_IX]

You need hellenistic settler points (16, I think) to build a military barrack. These points are generated by a hellenistic metropolis (I have no idea where to check how many points you already have, though). If you start with e.g. Ptolemaioi you´ll get the pop-up advisor telling you that there are colonists available right at the first turn. Same apllies to Baktria after a certain amount of time.

EDIT: Oh, and you can´t build the settler barracks in a province that hasn´t your factional government type (democratic/oligarchic).

But if these settler points are generated by metropolis I can't receive any of them because neither of my cities (including Baktra) has such a status. Or do I misunderstand something?

About the statement in the edit. Does this mean that I can't build the barracks in my original three cities, because they aren't democratic or oligarchic allied states?

[V.T. Marvin]

Ok that's good. Total Greek population between the two Baktrian populations in 272 BC was probably not greater than 40,000 and included huge numbers of Hellenized Asians and mixed marriages.

... therefore the option to Hellenize Baktria is intentionally severely limited - basically further Hellenization can really start only
EITHER after Baktria conquers a region containing pre-existing metropolis - i.e. fairly late in the campaign
OR after it upgrades one of its settlements to metropis status using the very slowly rising of Hellenistic culture due to ownership and governor's influence.

That is a part of the challenge playing this faction - Hellenistic in nature of its elites, but forced to operate within culturally quite foreign environment.

[Legion_IX]

.
OR after it upgrades one of its settlements to metropis status using the very slowly rising of Hellenistic culture due to ownership and governor's influence.

Exactly this is not possible.
Baktra is the city with the highest cultural level of 50% of you starting cities. In my last game in turn 131 it was surrounded by baktrian provinces since more or less the beginning of the game, the governor had 9 points of influence and the cultural level was still on 50% level. To reach metropolis status you need 69%. If thats not possible to gain a single one percent after 130 turns by best possible circumstances, how should you manage to get 19% even during the long campaign? That's clearly not a challenge but a simple bug.
As for the first possibilty. I think the next metropolis should be Seleukeia or probably even Antiocheia. Therefore to build typical baktrian units you need to conquer nearly the whole Arche. Which is whether historical not a good gameplay solution.

No matter what, the Baktrian campaign is bugged on the current status. You simply cannot became a metropolis, regardless of your actions and further circumstances. Therefore whether the whole culture spread mechanics need to be changed or (a much simpler solution) Baktra became a metropolis. From the beginning on or via an event.

[Ballpoint202]

Exactly this is not possible.
Baktra is the city with the highest cultural level of 50% of you starting cities. In my last game in turn 131 it was surrounded by baktrian provinces since more or less the beginning of the game, the governor had 9 points of influence and the cultural level was still on 50% level. To reach metropolis status you need 69%. If thats not possible to gain a single one percent after 130 turns by best possible circumstances, how should you manage to get 19% even during the long campaign? That's clearly not a challenge but a simple bug.
As for the first possibilty. I think the next metropolis should be Seleukeia or probably even Antiocheia. Therefore to build typical baktrian units you need to conquer nearly the whole Arche. Which is whether historical not a good gameplay solution.

No matter what, the Baktrian campaign is bugged on the current status. You simply cannot became a metropolis, regardless of your actions and further circumstances. Therefore whether the whole culture spread mechanics need to be changed or (a much simpler solution) Baktra became a metropolis. From the beginning on or via an event.

Once the right colony is in place it takes about 19 years to increase the culture 19%, so not really very long in a nearly 300-year long campaign.

Conquering a metropolis in the first place is the problem, as there are only five at start: Corinth, Athens, Alexandria, Pergamon, and Syracuse. The Seluecids don't even have a city on that list; why would there be one in Baktria?

Rather than there not being enough cities with metropolises, I'd almost be willing to argue against Alexandria being a colonist-producing city -- it wasn't yet 60 years old when the game starts.

You can conquer other cities with a polis -- you don't have to build your own.

[malibu.stacey]

Or have a low level settler barrack from the start, that should help with the conversion.

But it is possible to get a metropolis in Baktra in the game (at least it was in 2.00), because this happened in my game without any cheats, it just took a while, turn 250, if I remember correctly.

[Colos1987]

Or have a low level settler barrack from the start, that should help with the conversion.

But it is possible to get a metropolis in Baktra in the game (at least it was in 2.00), because this happened in my game without any cheats, it just took a while, turn 250, if I remember correctly.

You can't do that with Bactria. At least not in 2.0. You can build only native baracks - which increases the conversion rate of eastern imperial only. Which means, you can't really do anything but conquering a metropolis, and those are far away This is why I abandoned my test campaign with Bactria (with .0)

Colos

[Simpelicity]

You can't do that with Bactria. At least not in 2.0. You can build only native baracks - which increases the conversion rate of eastern imperial only. Which means, you can't really do anything but conquering a metropolis, and those are far away This is why I abandoned my test campaign with Bactria (with .0)

Colos

He tells you that he did it and you answer it's impossible to do it?
lmao

EDIT
Updated the OP with results of the sweboz test.

[Colos1987]

He tells you that he did it and you answer it's impossible to do it?
lmao

EDIT
Updated the OP with results of the sweboz test.

Like I said, it was 2.0, I haven't had the opportunity to try out 2.1. And yes, in that game I could not build settler baracks for some reason, just the indigenius one. I guess it was a problem with that game only? Maybe a bug of some sort?

Also, governors didn't have any effect on conversion whatsoever. Thinking of it, is it possible that only a governor of Hellenistic origin can increase conversion rate (for Hellenistic factions, I mean)?

Not trying to contradict anyone, just sharing my experiences

Colos

[Legion_IX]

Like I said, it was 2.0, I haven't had the opportunity to try out 2.1. And yes, in that game I could not build settler baracks for some reason, just the indigenius one. I guess it was a problem with that game only? Maybe a bug of some sort?

Also, governors didn't have any effect on conversion whatsoever. Thinking of it, is it possible that only a governor of Hellenistic origin can increase conversion rate (for Hellenistic factions, I mean)?

Not trying to contradict anyone, just sharing my experiences

Colos

You could build settler baracks only if new colonists arrive and this is only available if you have a metropolis. Governeuers have an impact on the conversion rate, but the problem is that there are fixed levels of your culture which could only be increased by building the colonist barrack. So no matter what you do if you didn't build a barrack the relevant culture will not increase at all.

[Legion_IX]

You can't do that with Bactria. At least not in 2.0. You can build only native baracks - which increases the conversion rate of eastern imperial only. Which means, you can't really do anything but conquering a metropolis, and those are far away This is why I abandoned my test campaign with Bactria (with .0)

Colos

Exactly the same happened with my 2.01 campaign.

[Legion_IX]

Or have a low level settler barrack from the start, that should help with the conversion.

But it is possible to get a metropolis in Baktra in the game (at least it was in 2.00), because this happened in my game without any cheats, it just took a while, turn 250, if I remember correctly.

I've played the 2.01 version. Now I'm playing with the extended offices submod, where Baktra is a metropolis from the beginning on and it works fine.

[Simpelicity]

I edited the OP with this need of a metropolis thing for Baktria's government.

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

Sweboz

There seems to be 2 reforms. They trigger automatically after 32 years (128 turns) and 52 years (208).
PS I'd love confirmation on this.

Ok, I tested Sweboz :

I left the capital and migrate to two settlements.
Waited for 128th turn : I saw nothing.
Waited for 208th turn : I saw nothing.

So two things : either the reform is silent (I could evolve to stonewall upgrade...) and it occured, or it need something else. Could be ownership over original settelment, or the "homeland" government (which I couldn't have since I had not enough culture) or a perticular kind of tribe.

[Simpelicity]

Ok, I tested Sweboz :

I left the capital and migrate to two settlements.
Waited for 128th turn : I saw nothing.
Waited for 208th turn : I saw nothing.

So two things : either the reform is silent (I could evolve to stonewall upgrade...) and it occured, or it need something else. Could be ownership over original settelment, or the "homeland" government (which I couldn't have since I had not enough culture) or a perticular kind of tribe.

The script is weird for sweboz. In the the reform section, it actually says that it's scripted in another file entirely (descr_events). And in that file, it pretty much gives those years as the reform years. That being said, it is only scripted to increase a counter, so yes, it would be silent. I also don't know if the counter increasing has any effect yet.

It's also quite weird because at the same place where the sweboz reforms are scripted (descr_events), there's script for the lugian reforms. However, there's also some scripting done in the reform section of campaign_script for the lugian reforms... and it's not even the same script! Maybe the scripting in descr_events just isn't applied? I dunno.

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

The script is weird for sweboz. In the the reform section, it actually says that it's scripted in another file entirely (descr_events). And in that file, it pretty much gives those years as the reform years. That being said, it is only scripted to increase a counter, so yes, it would be silent. I also don't know if the counter increasing has any effect yet.

It's also quite weird because at the same place where the sweboz reforms are scripted (descr_events), there's script for the lugian reforms. However, there's also some scripting done in the reform section of campaign_script for the lugian reforms... and it's not even the same script! Maybe the scripting in descr_events just isn't applied? I dunno.

Oh my...

It seems to be a big mess in there. It's normal when scripting to leave things unfinished for later use, of course. But it would be really, really great if a member of the team could simply state what are the reforms, if they are finished or not and how to obtain them. Like in the FAQ of EB1.

[Ballpoint202]

edited to remove. I believe I got it wrong (I was cooking chili while reading the edb, so I plead distraction). sorry

[Simpelicity]

Those hidden ressources sound a lot like governement types.

[Ballpoint202]

Those hidden ressources sound a lot like governement types.

Yes. Perhaps because they have no metropolises at start, the Seleucids and Baktrians get to use the "native" political structures and subdivisions to install factional governments. The only Baktrian govt type that needs a metropolis (baktria7) has no hidden resource requirements at all (except that it does, because its antecedent baktria6 does).

[Simpelicity]

It completely makes sense that neither Seleukids nor Baktrians have metroloplises, or can colonise. They are both a minuscule hellenistic ruling class, ruling over a population largely non hellenistic. It's especially bad for Baktria, being so far away from Greece.

How do hidden ressources work though? Is it possible that building something adds hidden ressources? Because if those ressources are gov buildings (or come from them) it makes perfect sense. You can only build the hyparchia if there's no hyparchia already, and you can only build hyparchia's upgrade if hyparchia is already there. Similar thing with the rest of what you were saying, although your descriptiong of it is a little more imprecise, so I'm not entirely certain.

[Moorafrica]

@ Simpelicity And what for Carthaginians reforms??