[Official] Reform requirements - as at 2.3

[Mamertine]

Any other reforms planned for the future? Anything for KH, Makedonia?

Plans for a big one like Armenia remaking the the Persian Empire in EB1? How about the Getae remaking the Odryssian Empire?

[Ballpoint202]

If I read the script right, the Pritanoi "reform" is in two stages: first the Pritanoi become a kingdom, which allows the building of the highest factional govt in the British Isles, allowing the recruiting of companion units. For this, they need to build 1 market_two, 2 L_2 temples of different gods, 3 ports, and to train 9 cavalry units.

Then the size of the kingdom is judged -- if small (>2 and<5 regions with 4th level factional govt), 2nd level factional govts lose their law bonus; if it's large (>4 and<7 regions with 4th level factional govt), 2nd and 3rd level lose their law bonuses; and if huge (>6 regions with 4th level factional govt) they all lose their law bonuses.

[malibu.stacey]

Yeah really awesome thread. How does becoming a kingdom with Armenia or Baktria actually influence gameplay though?

You can build Basilike Patris - highest gov building - in provinces that are a metropolis and have a 3rd level settler building. No idea if that changes anything for the Baktria roster, but I´ll report here if it does (I have yet to build the metropolis in Baktra).

And the Independence Script really is a bit bugged:

- I only had to pay 3000 mnai once (very first winter)
- I didn´t get the triple pay event mentioned above after refusing to pay once
- I didn´t get instant war after refusing to pay twice in a row, relations jumped from poor to abysmal though
- AS wanted to accept me back as a vassal after every turn we had more than 3 and less than 9 battles, if I understand the script correctly it should only happen once, after 3 battles.

The good thing is that nothing is game-breaking

[Simpelicity]

If I read the script right, the Pritanoi "reform" is in two stages: first the Pritanoi become a kingdom, which allows the building of the highest factional govt in the British Isles, allowing the recruiting of companion units. For this, they need to build 1 market_two, 2 L_2 temples of different gods, 3 ports, and to train 9 cavalry units.

Then the size of the kingdom is judged -- if small (>2 and<5 regions with 4th level factional govt), 2nd level factional govts lose their law bonus; if it's large (>4 and<7 regions with 4th level factional govt), 2nd and 3rd level lose their law bonuses; and if huge (>6 regions with 4th level factional govt) they all lose their law bonuses.

Ooh very interesting. I hadn't seen these scripts. There's scripts for more factions than just Pritanoi, I'll have to look into this. Although they're called casse in there, I wonder if that breaks the script or not.
On a side note, you misread ">" on a lot of the script (I'll correct that when I have time to work on it). And the size of the kingdom isn't part of the reform process. It's a size penalty. I've seen it for celtic factions as well.

@Malibu What's really worrisome is that the script seems to be reacting differently in different games, which is, to all ends and purposes, impossible. Unless, of course, we have different versions of the game. So a quick question for you : what have you installed on EBII aside from the main download? New CAI, modesty patch, name it all. And one more question : Steam version or retail version?

[Kull]

Ooh very interesting. I hadn't seen these scripts. There's scripts for more factions than just Pritanoi, I'll have to look into this. Although they're called casse in there, I wonder if that breaks the script or not.

Internal faction names (i.e. those used by the M2TW engine) are sometimes different from the "visible" faction name. That is true of Pritanoi which are know to the engine as "f_casse". Changing internal names (which should NEVER be visible to the player unless they are rooting around in the text files) is an invitation to CTD, so please don't do that. There are no instances we know of where the external faction name (in the few cases where it's different) was mistakenly used internally.

[jamminj]

@Simpelicity ya, i read the code also, but i only got the event message after i had taken the selucids city of karkatohpia (excuse my spelling) i had 7+ provinces already before i took that settlement.. armiver is over 12k populace with all buildings built, and most of the others are highly developed. ive tried knocking down n rebuilding the government building to see if that would kick start the new government buildings, but to no avail.. further in the script it does say armiver needs to be over 50% religion, wondering if that is messing it up..
also, an event message about the kh reform had popped up a few turns before hand, but they had been wiped out completely alot earlier by mac..
it would seems the reforms are not quite right at the moment

[Simpelicity]

Hahaha don't worry I'm not that dumb. I'm just reading and translating the stuff, I ain't messing around with it

Updated the OP with Pritanoi and KH.

[malibu.stacey]

@Malibu What's really worrisome is that the script seems to be reacting differently in different games, which is, to all ends and purposes, impossible. Unless, of course, we have different versions of the game. So a quick question for you : what have you installed on EBII aside from the main download? New CAI, modesty patch, name it all. And one more question : Steam version or retail version?

He, I´ve seen much weirder things when I scripted missions for Operation Flashpoint and Arma II

ref your questions:

- clean install of MTWII+Kingdoms+EBII, nothing else
- CAI v2
- added Bactria to the factions which are able to convert camps to towns before starting the campaign (+ deleted the map file)
- postive character traits submod

[Simpelicity]

@Malibu sounds like non Steam, which means there are 3 differences with my setup. I'm using Steam, I'm not using the positive trait mod, and I didn't play around with Baktria. One of these is making a difference.

[TiTiTimmy]

Has anyone been able to complete the Polybian reform yet?
I have tried myself, but it haven't gotten it yet.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Polybian reform :
- Will happen past turn 100 if the player has had at least 4 large battles (enemy has over 10 units) in cisalpine Gaul (Felsina, Segesta, Medilanon, Patavium, Massalia, Segestica, Dalminion) and at least 5 large land battles (over 10 enemy units) against Carthage.
- Will happen automatically at turn 248 if the conditions above are not met.

[Simpelicity]

Did you get all the battles you need?

Assuming you did, I would to my "disclaimer" and say that there is some confusion about whether they mean turns or years. No one has bothered to clear that one up for sure yet. So it's possible it only happens past turn 400, although that feels wrong - or really really late.

[Marcus Valerius Laevinus]

For me the Polybian Reforms appeared at about 210 B.C. after I finally attacked Carthago and had a few battles with them. A window popped up, informed me about the reforms and a few turns after that I could recruit the Polybian troops in Rome.
Well, maybe they happened because I had the correspondent turn number, but anyway, they appeared.

So far a very stable mod, not a single ccd even after hours of play

[Simpelicity]

For me the Polybian Reforms appeared at about 210 B.C. after I finally attacked Carthago and had a few battles with them. A window popped up, informed me about the reforms and a few turns after that I could recruit the Polybian troops in Rome.
Well, maybe they happened because I had the correspondent turn number, but anyway, they appeared.

So far a very stable mod, not a single ccd even after hours of play

210 BC is the automatic reform, assuming it is scripted in turns. So it might be because of battles, but it sounds like the automatic reform. Were you counting your large battles?

[TiTiTimmy]

I'm pretty sure that I had them by now, but the battles against Carthage have taken place in both Sicily and Italy. But by the script it shouldn't be a problem.
In Cisalpine Gaul I have fought a lot against vast Arverni armies for the control, so it should also have been completed.

But if it's 400 turn, then it will come much later then EB1. But I fight on to see if something happens.

[Wulfburk]

Saba reform is working correctly. A character of mine spent a turn in Timna when it had less than 30% Eastern Tribal culture, and the reform triggered, now Eastern Imperial Culture is my main culture, and now at the building browser another level of the Sabaean Administration buildings has appeared: Mahrab Malkan (Royal Court, the one you have in Maryab at the start). Now just have to wait until the Imperial culture reaches 60% to build it.

Small tips to do the reform: Always build the temples of Almagah, for it raises Imperial culture. (and also increases law which is good for Saba). At Timna and the city east of it, you should build at once the Sabaean administration buildings (something like regional pacification) and then the next building on that tree. Happiness shoudnt be a problem once you have the shrine of Almagah.

For Qarnawu, you cant build the regional pacification at first because it doesnt has the walls IIRC. What i did was i built the allied government and then built the Allied Oligarchic Government, and completely developed the city. Many turns later i deleted that building and build the regional pacification and now i got the Royal Governor building in it. Imperial culture is rising steadily in the region.

What the reform does military wise: Once you build the Royal Court building you will be able to recruit all the units you can recruit in your capital, Maryab. Most importantly, the Khamis. (i imagine once the roster is complete you'll get much more units available at other regions)


If anyone managed to complete other reforms too might as well post it here so people can see how it works, what you have to do, and what changes the reform does, in game wise.




Oh and uh, the turns mentioned in the scripts are really turns. Someone mentioned in .Org that he did the Sweboz reform after 128 turns. Though like i said it in there, it probably should be relooked at... The player should need to do something, either develop his faction like the Pritanoi reform, either have to fight a certain enemy like the polybian reform, or etc, than just waiting a X number of turns.

[malibu.stacey]

If anyone managed to complete other reforms too might as well post it here so people can see how it works, what you have to do, and what changes the reform does, in game wise.

If you complete the Baktrian Indepence, you´ll have the option to built the Basilike Patris (Royal Homeland) in Baktra (or any other Metropolis, for that matter). This unlocks Hetairoi and Oxybeles, but, more importantly, you can built higher level gov buildings in other provinces, too. This gives access to Hypaspistai, Baktroi Hippeis and provides an additional law bonus, if I remember correctly.


By the way, are there any reforms for the Kimmerios Bosperos? Or is the Royal Satrapy building their highest gov building?

[Legion_IX]

If you complete the Baktrian Indepence, you´ll have the option to built the Basilike Patris (Royal Homeland) in Baktra (or any other Metropolis, for that matter).

In my current Baktria game, I've became independent after winning 9 battles and conquering 2 regions. However it's still not possible to build Basilike Patris. I suppose the reason is a low greek cultural level in Baktra, so it can't became Metropolis. How did you managed to increase the culture? I have governeurs with a high management skill, only greek buildings, high level temples and only greek regions around me. But the cultural level in all my 3 starting regions is actually decreasing instead of increasing.

[Kull]

Oh and uh, the turns mentioned in the scripts are really turns. Someone mentioned in .Org that he did the Sweboz reform after 128 turns. Though like i said it in there, it probably should be relooked at... The player should need to do something, either develop his faction like the Pritanoi reform, either have to fight a certain enemy like the polybian reform, or etc, than just waiting a X number of turns.

We haven't had time to flesh out all the reforms - Sweboz being one of them. Rather than omit the reform altogether, a simplistic turn-based trigger was used so at least the players get to experience it.

[Simpelicity]

I remember the EBI Sweboz reform used to be tied to population, among other factors I think. It was kinda hard to get, at least in a timely fashion.

I think I'll add your tips for getting the saba reform, if only because it's not exactly intuitive that you need the eastern imperial culture to build your new government. Thx for that.

If anyone else has tips or observations, please feel free to share.

[Simpelicity]

Bosporos doesn't seem to have a reform yet. I get the feeling that is due to their roster being quite incomplete.