[Official] Reform requirements - as at 2.3

[Ribtickler]

Then you have to wait for 210BC. The reform will happen then regardless, you just won't get it early.

I think its 248 bc, the fallback date. As im on 214bc and no reforms.

[QuintusSertorius]

I think its 248 bc, the fallback date. As im on 214bc and no reforms.

No, it's after turn number 248, which is 210BC:

if 	I_LocalFaction f_rome						;;; fall-back automatic reforms for player-controlled Rome
            and I_TurnNumber > 248
            and I_EventCounter ecCamillanEra = 1
            set_event_counter ecCamillanEra 0
            set_event_counter ecPolybianEra 1
            historic_event HE_POLYBIAN_REFORM { f_rome, }
            terminate_monitor
        end_if

[Ribtickler]

No, it's after turn number 248, which is 210BC:

if     I_LocalFaction f_rome                        ;;; fall-back automatic reforms for player-controlled Rome
            and I_TurnNumber > 248
            and I_EventCounter ecCamillanEra = 1
            set_event_counter ecCamillanEra 0
            set_event_counter ecPolybianEra 1
            historic_event HE_POLYBIAN_REFORM { f_rome, }
            terminate_monitor
        end_if

My mistake Quintus. I got my BC and turns confused. I got the reform on TURN 251 , I didn't move my FL into Rome until that turn and that when they fired. So your Fl might have to be in your capital. The new units need so many turns to be replenished, which varies from city to city(infra structure?) as I have to wait 5 turns in rome to recruit them but 20 turn wait to recruit my first Triari in Capua. The campaign has been one of my most enjoyable yet by the way(2.06 H/M).

[Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ]

I wonder if is there any way to make those rebel stacks immobile.

[myarta]

Yeah, I know there is a fallback. Like I mentioned, it's a long long time into the game so I've never gotten there. The chance with the battles is 100 turns in, which is a decent accomplishment. The fallback is 248 turns, over twice the campaign length of satisfying the battle conditions. With starting new campaigns as new factions when there are new releases, I don't think I've ever gotten that many turns in a campaign. I will later, when there are Marian reforms to work towards as well.

[QuintusSertorius]

Yeah, I know there is a fallback. Like I mentioned, it's a long long time into the game so I've never gotten there. The chance with the battles is 100 turns in, which is a decent accomplishment. The fallback is 248 turns, over twice the campaign length of satisfying the battle conditions. With starting new campaigns as new factions when there are new releases, I don't think I've ever gotten that many turns in a campaign. I will later, when there are Marian reforms to work towards as well.

Ultimately, that's the thing with the Roman reforms - there are more of them around the corner, so the fallback can't be too early. We have to spread out the various rosters so they actually get some reasonable amount of play.

I'll have a think about whether we should reduce the Cisalpine requirement.

On the Pergamene reforms, I've removed the rather unnecessary condition that as well as the enemy army being big, your own has at least 1000 men in it.

[romanius24]

What sort of units are planned for Augustan reforms?
I remember Evocati in EB1. Any interesting new concepts for EB2?

[myarta]

I see there actually IS a pool for provinc when the Marian reforms hit now. I must have missed that going in. Right now the conditions are turn 500+ and the Reformator trait. So I guess if I make it to 500 turns (I don't know if I ever have), and have the Reformator, I can do local recruitment in my provinces. What's coming in the Autumn release is the new Roman units, I believe. Making it to 500 unlocks a small amount of local troops in the provinces but continues to use the same Polybian roster for Rome.

romanius24: I think the Autumn Release is just going to feature the Marian roster, not also include the Imperial triggers. I'd love it if it had both, but I think it's just the former for now.

Re: the timing for Marian. In EB1 it was 400 turns, here it's 500. It's a long slog to get there, but of course 500 turns is still 147BC, which is when Gaius Marius was 10 years old. So I appreciate not having to wait the actual historical amount of time, or it would never end. I think we stated an AD14 end date, so there really wouldn't be an imperial phase to Rome in this game either, if it wasn't permitted earlier than the norm. IIRC in EB1 you just had to make it to 125BC, but I haven't played in a long time and I rarely got that far. I don't know if it's been decided yet whether Imperial will feature in this game and how ahistorically (but player-friendly) early it will be permitted. I do really like the roleplay involved in the leaders having certain necessary traits. Similarly, I liked the Latifundia land displacement reasoning behind the Marian. Is the Marian reform still having its trigger worked out, or is it substantially going to be just 500+ turns and the Reformator trait that already exists (which ignores agricultural changes, and requires >40 settlements, turn >500, SCV, Popularis, Influence 3+, 3+ stars, and the office of Consul)?

[myarta]

Hmm, the faction leader location isn't part of the script. Odd that you got them on 251. There IS a part of the script that is supposed to increase their availability in Rome one-time to tide you over from the transition. Apparently it merely moved them closer rather than made a whole unit available from the start?

[squirrelmaster]

Is the Nabatu empire reform implemented?

I'm at turn 200 and I've captured the greek polis's and built the markets and nothing's changed.

[QuintusSertorius]

Is the Nabatu empire reform implemented?

I'm at turn 200 and I've captured the greek polis's and built the markets and nothing's changed.

Yes, but it's extremely exacting. You need to have:
-Had 40 turns pass since you triggered the Settled event
-Have three settlements with a polis_one or bigger in them with an Admin government
-Have three market_four's or bigger - each one of those requires a large city
-Have 10+ settlements

[squirrelmaster]

Yes, but it's extremely exacting. You need to have:
-Had 40 turns pass since you triggered the Settled event
-Have three settlements with a polis_one or bigger in them with an Admin government
-Have three market_four's or bigger - each one of those requires a large city
-Have 10+ settlements

I hadn't put the right government in the cities with a polis. I now have and Empire!

Thanks for the help!

[myarta]

I hadn't put the right government in the cities with a polis. I now have and Empire!

Thanks for the help!

You're welcome Enjoy your empire! Build Native Colony buildings to help raise your Eastern Imperial culture and get useful units.
Except in towns that have a Hellenic Polis or Hellenic Metropolis. In those, you can't build the native colonies. It seems the best combination is a Minor Hellenic Polis, since it qualifies you for the Philhellenic Satrapy without disqualifying you from building Native Colonies. Unfortunately unless you blitz early, many neighboring buildings will already be past the Minor Hellenic Polis stage.

I personally hate 'traps' like that where the only way to 'solve' a problem is to rely on the AI. e.g. if you're not a settling faction, sometimes you can just wait for the AI to settle camps before you take them, since otherwise you're stuck with them staying as camps.

In this case, you have to use spies to carefully monitor when Ptolemaoi and AS build Minor Hellenic Polises, and swoop in before they can upgrade them to full Polises. I wish you could still build Native Colony if you're not a faction that can make use of the Hellenic Polis chain, since the benefit of higher Hellenic Polis levels is colony points to build Hellenic Colonies, but your faction can't do that, so you're SOL.

[Moros]

You're welcome Enjoy your empire! Build Native Colony buildings to help raise your Eastern Imperial culture and get useful units.
Except in towns that have a Hellenic Polis or Hellenic Metropolis. In those, you can't build the native colonies. It seems the best combination is a Minor Hellenic Polis, since it qualifies you for the Philhellenic Satrapy without disqualifying you from building Native Colonies. Unfortunately unless you blitz early, many neighboring buildings will already be past the Minor Hellenic Polis stage.

I personally hate 'traps' like that where the only way to 'solve' a problem is to rely on the AI. e.g. if you're not a settling faction, sometimes you can just wait for the AI to settle camps before you take them, since otherwise you're stuck with them staying as camps.

In this case, you have to use spies to carefully monitor when Ptolemaoi and AS build Minor Hellenic Polises, and swoop in before they can upgrade them to full Polises. I wish you could still build Native Colony if you're not a faction that can make use of the Hellenic Polis chain, since the benefit of higher Hellenic Polis levels is colony points to build Hellenic Colonies, but your faction can't do that, so you're SOL.

You make a good point. We should look at this in the future.

As we are talking about the reforms I'd like to say that we have some additional units for the Nabataeans in this regards in the autumn release. The conditions will also be overhauled (they are just testing conditions at this moment) and more units will be added in future releases.

[myarta]

Is the Nabatu empire reform implemented?

I'm at turn 200 and I've captured the greek polis's and built the markets and nothing's changed.

Did you already get the Settled event by converting Petra into a city?
Has it been at least 40 turns since the Settled event?
Do you have 10 or more settlements?
You need Nabatean Administration (no other variant, this exact building name) in three cities or more with a Minor Hel Pol/ Hel Pol/ or Hel Metro.
What 'markets' did you build? You need at least 3 cities with "Great Forum" or higher. That's pretty high. Trader -> Market -> Forum -> Great Forum

[Thuycidides]

What happened to the KH reforms? The "archon" title no longer appears in the FM traits.

[gosam]

What happened to the KH reforms? The "archon" title no longer appears in the FM traits.

Some traits were renamed, maybe you just haven't noticed them? The spartan one for example is : Ephoros tes Spartes

Can you not get new ones?

[kingman1337]

How do you upgrade Petra, or Tadmur as Nabataea? It's annoying to have it stuck as a camp.

[QuintusSertorius]

What happened to the KH reforms? The "archon" title no longer appears in the FM traits.

You have to view an FM in the right place for it to appear.

How do you upgrade Petra, or Tadmur as Nabataea? It's annoying to have it stuck as a camp.

You have to destroy the herd buildings and build farms instead.

[Thuycidides]

You have to view an FM in the right place for it to appear.

Thanks, but how is anyone supposed to know this or figure it out without visiting the forum? I know this faction very well and I have no idea how to proceed!