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Thread: [Official] Reform requirements - as at 2.3

  1. #401

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Floren d'Asteneuz View Post
    Hi Simplicity, (and dev team if you are still reading this thread)

    Just so you know, in the v2.05, the Saka reform seems broken. First stage works fine, and when you have three cities, it triggers. But then it seems that the second reform tries to trigger also. The second reform building tries to pop in the bulding choices of some of the settlements, and if you click to construct them, some of them will go on and some other will stay in the building queue indefinately. If you destroy the builded one, you cannot build them anymore. And more : if you wait for 40 turns, nothings triggers, and if you wait for 40 years (yeah, I DID IT !!!) nothing triggers either, even though I have L3 farms.
    Sorry, I did see this (I read almost everything on this forum), and forwarded a note to Gigantus to take a look a few days ago. He's reviewing and it will be fixed, he's already identified the likely cause of the break.

  2. #402

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Sorry, I did see this (I read almost everything on this forum), and forwarded a note to Gigantus to take a look a few days ago. He's reviewing and it will be fixed, he's already identified the likely cause of the break.
    That's great ! I will report here the result of my tests when it will be implemented (for the sake of the thread), and notice you in private also.


  3. #403

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Sorry, I did see this (I read almost everything on this forum), and forwarded a note to Gigantus to take a look a few days ago. He's reviewing and it will be fixed, he's already identified the likely cause of the break.
    So can we hope in finding the bug resolved on the next patch (most likely the 2.05d)? I'm eager to use saka rauka on my next game...I absolutely love horse archer!

  4. #404

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by AncalagonBlack View Post
    So can we hope in finding the bug resolved on the next patch (most likely the 2.05d)? I'm eager to use saka rauka on my next game...I absolutely love horse archer!
    Yes, we think we've fixed it, though as always need feedback of people playing it.

    One other important note on Saka in 2.06 - their post-reform government buildings now give local units, as their description implies, but wasn't previously delivered upon. Which not only adds to the feel of them settling and taking on Persian modes of rulership, but gives some much-needed variety too. So when you take India or Baktria or the Seleukid domains, you'll have native troops at your disposal (including Greeks in the right places).

  5. #405

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Yes, we think we've fixed it, though as always need feedback of people playing it.

    One other important note on Saka in 2.06 - their post-reform government buildings now give local units, as their description implies, but wasn't previously delivered upon. Which not only adds to the feel of them settling and taking on Persian modes of rulership, but gives some much-needed variety too. So when you take India or Baktria or the Seleukid domains, you'll have native troops at your disposal (including Greeks in the right places).
    - First reform : works. Reminder : you have to have the faction leader having the "settled" trait for the first reform. Will change your faction's culture.
    - Second reform : works : in addition to the 40 turns, the 2nd reform need faction leader with "settled" trait and the faction owning 10 settlements and l3 (?) Farms. Will change your faction's culture again in a third culture.
    - Third reform : not exactly a "reform" per se, in fact, since it allow you to place a building to act as your "capital" in the settlement of your choice. It "works" but it is still bugged a bit. Here are the conditions : If your faction leader has 4 or more authority, OR, if the faction is owning 19 settlments, THEN one turn at least after the second reform, the faction will have a "royal domain" building, emulating a "capital".

    Problems :
    - First reform : footmen (axemen and archers) and light horse archers are only recruitable in steppe nomad settlements, no more in the "settled" settlements, wher you can only recruit nobles or light lancers. Second reform will allow to recruit local armies, resolving partially the problem. "Royal domain" building possibly allow you to recruit every faction's unit.
    - Second reform : Nothing for now.
    - Third reform : triggers in a chaotic way. I had mine in the same turn as the first reform, discarded it. Triggers more than once (at least two) and the second one, if you try to build the "royal domain" building again in an other settlement, it will stay forever in the construction queue, and if you remove it, it will disappear. (the disappearance is normal, see "tips")

    Tips :
    - First reform :
    --- To have the wooden palissade (settled instead of nomad) needed for this reform, you have to build the "Large scale farming" building. This building cannot be build if you have the "Live stock herd" (or it's evolution) or "Warlord Court" (or it's evolution). When you'll have the "Large scale farming" building, you'll be able to convert your nomad settlement to a permanent settled community.
    --- Since you'll not be able to recruit any footmen in any native settlement, you'll have to relly on mercenaries and on your nomad settlements. I didn't try "allied settlement" but it could be a solution.
    --- Culture influence is very slow and you'll have to face disorder. Be prepared.

    - Second reform :
    --- Nothing for now.

    - Third reform :
    --- Warning : the "royal domain" building can be build only once, at least for now. Meaning : if you click on it and then remove it from your building queue, You Will Not Be Able To rebuild It Again. Chose your emplacement wisely, and then click on it, but Not Before Saving. If it shows before it should (when the first reform is triggered for instance) I strongly suggest not to click on it and wait for the second reform to trigger, and wait one turn at least, and then click on it. If a second one is showing, I suggest not to click on it.

    Conclusion : Since Quitus told me the 2.06a will come soon with a correction, my suggestion would be to wait for it before starting a Saka campaign. But if you wish to start now, the reforms here works almost perfectly and the flaws found in game (hole in the faction troop recruitement pool, 3rd reform glytching) can be avoided with little efforts or can be managed easily.

    Take care, everyone.

    Note :
    - Bug report (not critical) : Chighu start with a "trader (western greek)".
    - Bug report (not critical) lots of "placeholder" images. Including roads when in the building pool (but not in the construction queue nor in the building list when build)
    - lots of regions descriptions missing in the saka area.
    - Will edit if something new come up.
    Last edited by Floren d'Asteneuz; November 05, 2015 at 09:01 PM.


  6. #406

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quick question. Do sieges count as battles won for the roman reforms? Or does it have to be an open battle?

  7. #407

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Do sieges count as battles won for the Hayasdan reforms? Or does it have to be an open battle?

  8. #408

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Ribtickler View Post
    Quick question. Do sieges count as battles won for the roman reforms? Or does it have to be an open battle?
    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    Do sieges count as battles won for the Hayasdan reforms? Or does it have to be an open battle?
    In both instances I'd have to check with Gig - I suspect not. For the Roman one it has to have at least 11 units on the enemy side; at least 5 of these against Carthage and at least 4 in Cisapline Gaul. And it has to be at least turn 101.

  9. #409

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    In 2 or 3 playthroughs, I've never been able to successfully achieve that. Probably because there aren't enough stacks of rebels in Cisalpine Gaul to fight. And the rebels are so strong, the Celts never take over those provinces. I get plenty of Carthaginian battles, but even freshly spawned Rebel stacks after I've conquered CAG don't have enough units to count. Usually the enemy has one or two full stacks adjacent to each other, so fighting that battle counts as only 'one', then their survivors only have 10 units, or something. I may just custom edit my script to avoid that criteria or only require 2 or something when I do my Autumn playthrough since the fallback turn is many many many hours and I'd like to see Polybians at least once in EB2.

  10. #410

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by myarta View Post
    In 2 or 3 playthroughs, I've never been able to successfully achieve that. Probably because there aren't enough stacks of rebels in Cisalpine Gaul to fight. And the rebels are so strong, the Celts never take over those provinces. I get plenty of Carthaginian battles, but even freshly spawned Rebel stacks after I've conquered CAG don't have enough units to count. Usually the enemy has one or two full stacks adjacent to each other, so fighting that battle counts as only 'one', then their survivors only have 10 units, or something. I may just custom edit my script to avoid that criteria or only require 2 or something when I do my Autumn playthrough since the fallback turn is many many many hours and I'd like to see Polybians at least once in EB2.
    Note there's a "fallback" trigger for the Polybian reforms in 210BC if the player fails to trigger them earlier. Otherwise they won't happen before 247BC anyway. So the only thing the battles-related requirements do is allow you to get them earlier than 210BC when they'd happen automaticaly.

  11. #411

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    The cisalpine rebel stacks always invade Roma land, leaving you no choice but to fight them on land tiles that don't count towards the reform. Leaving it impossible to achieve in northern Italy. I suppose the solution for a player is to hire mercs and take on the rebels before they head south. Something I havn`t tried yet.

  12. #412

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Ribtickler View Post
    The cisalpine rebel stacks always invade Roma land, leaving you no choice but to fight them on land tiles that don't count towards the reform. Leaving it impossible to achieve in northern Italy. I suppose the solution for a player is to hire mercs and take on the rebels before they head south. Something I havn`t tried yet.
    Then you have to wait for 210BC. The reform will happen then regardless, you just won't get it early.

  13. #413
    Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ's Avatar Yeah science!
    Civitate

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    Default Re: Reform requirements

    I wonder if is there any way to make those rebel stacks immobile.
    "First get your facts straight, then distort them at your leisure." - Mark Twain

    οὐκ ἦν μὲν ἐγώ, νῦν δ' εἰμί τότε δ' ούκ ἔσομαι, ούδέ μοι μελήσει

  14. #414
    Biarchus
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    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Then you have to wait for 210BC. The reform will happen then regardless, you just won't get it early.
    Haha, that's what I always do. I simply turtle along and eventually get the reform. It seems everybody else is in a hurry. Not sure why.

    Especially since the Polybian units don't even have their proper models skinned yet... Is that not correct? I believe they currently use the same model as the Camillians.... Do they not?...

  15. #415

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Yeah, I know there is a fallback. Like I mentioned, it's a long long time into the game so I've never gotten there. The chance with the battles is 100 turns in, which is a decent accomplishment. The fallback is 248 turns, over twice the campaign length of satisfying the battle conditions. With starting new campaigns as new factions when there are new releases, I don't think I've ever gotten that many turns in a campaign. I will later, when there are Marian reforms to work towards as well.

  16. #416

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by myarta View Post
    Yeah, I know there is a fallback. Like I mentioned, it's a long long time into the game so I've never gotten there. The chance with the battles is 100 turns in, which is a decent accomplishment. The fallback is 248 turns, over twice the campaign length of satisfying the battle conditions. With starting new campaigns as new factions when there are new releases, I don't think I've ever gotten that many turns in a campaign. I will later, when there are Marian reforms to work towards as well.
    Ultimately, that's the thing with the Roman reforms - there are more of them around the corner, so the fallback can't be too early. We have to spread out the various rosters so they actually get some reasonable amount of play.

    I'll have a think about whether we should reduce the Cisalpine requirement.

    On the Pergamene reforms, I've removed the rather unnecessary condition that as well as the enemy army being big, your own has at least 1000 men in it.

  17. #417

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    What sort of units are planned for Augustan reforms?
    I remember Evocati in EB1. Any interesting new concepts for EB2?

  18. #418

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Then you have to wait for 210BC. The reform will happen then regardless, you just won't get it early.
    I think its 248 bc, the fallback date. As im on 214bc and no reforms.

  19. #419

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Ribtickler View Post
    I think its 248 bc, the fallback date. As im on 214bc and no reforms.
    No, it's after turn number 248, which is 210BC:

    Code:
    if 	I_LocalFaction f_rome						;;; fall-back automatic reforms for player-controlled Rome
                and I_TurnNumber > 248
                and I_EventCounter ecCamillanEra = 1
                set_event_counter ecCamillanEra 0
                set_event_counter ecPolybianEra 1
                historic_event HE_POLYBIAN_REFORM { f_rome, }
                terminate_monitor
            end_if

  20. #420

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    I see there actually IS a pool for provinc when the Marian reforms hit now. I must have missed that going in. Right now the conditions are turn 500+ and the Reformator trait. So I guess if I make it to 500 turns (I don't know if I ever have), and have the Reformator, I can do local recruitment in my provinces. What's coming in the Autumn release is the new Roman units, I believe. Making it to 500 unlocks a small amount of local troops in the provinces but continues to use the same Polybian roster for Rome.

    romanius24: I think the Autumn Release is just going to feature the Marian roster, not also include the Imperial triggers. I'd love it if it had both, but I think it's just the former for now.

    Re: the timing for Marian. In EB1 it was 400 turns, here it's 500. It's a long slog to get there, but of course 500 turns is still 147BC, which is when Gaius Marius was 10 years old. So I appreciate not having to wait the actual historical amount of time, or it would never end. I think we stated an AD14 end date, so there really wouldn't be an imperial phase to Rome in this game either, if it wasn't permitted earlier than the norm. IIRC in EB1 you just had to make it to 125BC, but I haven't played in a long time and I rarely got that far. I don't know if it's been decided yet whether Imperial will feature in this game and how ahistorically (but player-friendly) early it will be permitted. I do really like the roleplay involved in the leaders having certain necessary traits. Similarly, I liked the Latifundia land displacement reasoning behind the Marian. Is the Marian reform still having its trigger worked out, or is it substantially going to be just 500+ turns and the Reformator trait that already exists (which ignores agricultural changes, and requires >40 settlements, turn >500, SCV, Popularis, Influence 3+, 3+ stars, and the office of Consul)?

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