[Official] Reform requirements - as at 2.3

[QuintusSertorius]

fair enought. can you at least give krete already a lvl 1 polis

It does already have one - why do you think KH is able to recruit anything from there at all? And is trivially easy to upgrade - KH can still upgrade polis buildings that are already there, as any Hellenistic faction can. Not only that, unlike any other faction, they have a conversion bonus simply for having their government building in place.

[delra]

You're supposed to unite the existing polis' as KH

List of all polis buildings from descr_strat with their level:

Macedonia: Pella 2, Demetrias 2, Korinthos 3
Epeiros: Ambrakia 2, Taras 2, Epidamnos 1
Koinon: Athens 3, Sparte 2, Rhodos 2
Seleucids: Seleukeia 1, Sardis 1, Antioch 3, Edessa 1
Ptolemies: Alexandria 3, Ephesos 3, Halikarnassos 2, Side 1, Salamis 1, Memphis 1
Baktria: Baktria 2
Pergamon: Pergamon 3
Bosporans: Pantikapaion 2
Rebel: Massalia 1, Rhegion 1, Messana 1, Syracuse 3, Thermon 2, Knossos 1, Byzantion 1, Sinope 1, Chersonesos 1, Kyrene 1

So basically: No Ipsos, Nikaia, Tarsos here. No Trapezous or Emporion, to name a few most notable Greek colonies that aren't here on the list. Histria and Olbia aren't for KH either. Nor is Alalia, that'd link Massalia and Syracuse at least a little. No way of building a polis there at all, ever. :-( 1/3 Greek culture city like Side gets a polis, while 50% Greek Nikaia does not ever get one.

What you say would make for a nice campaign, but then you hit this invisible wall of certain cities not having a polis nor a chance for a polis and that just leads to a quit. It's just frustrating when you have your own definition of the "Greek" world for unification as KH, but the game's buildings don't fit with it. :-(

[QuintusSertorius]

List of all polis buildings from descr_strat with their level:



So basically: No Ipsos, Nikaia, Tarsos here. No Trapezous or Emporion, to name a few most notable Greek colonies that aren't here on the list. Histria and Olbia aren't for KH either. Nor is Alalia, that'd link Massalia and Syracuse at least a little. No way of building a polis there at all, ever. :-( 1/3 Greek culture city like Side gets a polis, while 50% Greek Nikaia does not ever get one.

What you say would make for a nice campaign, but then you hit this invisible wall of certain cities not having a polis nor a chance for a polis and that just leads to a quit. It's just frustrating when you have your own definition of the "Greek" world for unification as KH, but the game's buildings don't fit with it. :-(

So the only reason to play a KH campaign is to upgrade polis buildings?

Placement of polis buildings is neither random nor haphazard. It's not simply about the level of "Greek-ness" in a region, but also about the forms of government, cultural norms and so on. I discovered this with a submod a while back, the only one that had been missed was Syrakousai. Sorry, but your definition of "the Greek world" is simply wrong, insofar as places where a very particular form of community organisation was still relevant. Which is what the polis represents.

Not only that, but while it's unpredictable, the AI can build them without having to worry about colonists (because the condition is always on for them). So if you take your time, you may find that the AI factions have built some new ones in suitable places.

I should finally note, if you don't like it, it's a trivially easy edit of the descr_strat. Get yourself Notepad++ (do not try this with Notepad). Find the settlement you want. Paste this in there:

building
	{
		type hinterland_hellenistic_polis polis_one
	}

Save, delete your map.rwm, start a new campaign.

[delra]

Sorry, but your definition of "the Greek world" is simply wrong

Erm. But your mod does exactly what I suggest. You have added a polis in Nikaia, Olbia, Trapezous... Basically, you agree with me and disagree with the faction's historian. :-D

[QuintusSertorius]

Erm. But your mod does exactly what I suggest. You have added a polis in Nikaia, Olbia, Trapezous... Basically, you agree with me and disagree with the faction's historian. :-D

My outdated submod, which isn't even compatible with anything post-2.01.

[tgoodenow]

When running a test to make sure reform requirements work as intended, does it matter if I play on Easy/Easy? Pontus is giving me a headache.

[delra]

You can just auto_win everything....

[tgoodenow]

You can just auto_win everything....

i was worried that would effect the reform because I didn't know if that would count as a "win"

[delra]

It does count, as long as you initiate the battle. Easy to test with Pergamon.

[Jervaj]

I dont mind the not colonisation think. Its true that it suits them, and it makes you really aim for the union of the greek world.

However that limit of 50% umm, having not other option because difficult to finish the hellenisation of that big amount of cities that start arround those values. Maybe they could be given an extra coversion at a slower rate from there on?

Been the true hellens I really enjoy hellenizing the world with them xD

[QuintusSertorius]

I dont mind the not colonisation think. Its true that it suits them, and it makes you really aim for the union of the greek world.

However that limit of 50% umm, having not other option because difficult to finish the hellenisation of that big amount of cities that start arround those values. Maybe they could be given an extra coversion at a slower rate from there on?

Been the true hellens I really enjoy hellenizing the world with them xD

It's deliberate design; it means upgrading any polis_one in an area that is only just at the 30% (eg Massalia) is do-able. But that upgrading a polis_two to polis_three will take more time. Or be somewhere already within Hellas.

[Jervaj]

It's deliberate design; it means upgrading any polis_one in an area that is only just at the 30% (eg Massalia) is do-able. But that upgrading a polis_two to polis_three will take more time. Or be somewhere already within Hellas.

More time we are talking of over 200 turns here

Thats why I said adding a slower evrsion of the bonus maybe. But its ok, they play well everyone due to been sorrounded of the most hellenic settlements to form a solid core.

[clone]

can i ask something . if kh captures o totally non greek settlement what are the options. only allied goverment?
sorry if the question is already answered

[QuintusSertorius]

can i ask something . if kh captures o totally non greek settlement what are the options. only allied goverment?
sorry if the question is already answered

If it has a level of Hellenistic Polities of less than 25%, then yes Allied Government is the only option. If it's at least 25% though, then you can build a Native Administration, which in Illyria and Anatolia will give a native pool.

[clone]

If it has a level of Hellenistic Polities of less than 25%, then yes Allied Government is the only option. If it's at least 25% though, then you can build a Native Administration, which in Illyria and Anatolia will give a native pool.

only in illyria and anatolia you can build native administration? what if you capturte a settlement in gaul

[QuintusSertorius]

only in illyria and anatolia you can build native administration? what if you capturte a settlement in gaul

Allied Government.

[Hummer]

I can also confirm the Pritanoi reform works. However, I noticed something odd. It says you need to construct 2 level 3 markets, and 3 level 3 temples. Here's the problem. To build a level 3 temple, one must build/unlock the 2nd level of government. To build/unlock the 2nd level of government, one must build a level 3 market. So to build 3 level 3 temples, one must build at least 3 level 3 markets. This makes the requirement to build 2 level 3 markets redundant because you inherently have to build 3 level 3 markets just so one can build the 3 level 3 temples.

Just seems a little odd. There's not much point in having the market requirement as is. Perhaps it should be changed to 4 level 3 markets so that there is a point to building them other than just for the temple requirement...

This is what I have observed. Anyone else looked into it?...

And the money problems really are large problems. I'm at turn 218 and I have 1.15 Million in currency!!!

[delra]

1.15 Million in currency

Build a fleet. :-D

Money is balanced for you having one.

[Ribtickler]

Got a question. On 2.01 I got a getai reform by developing 3 settlements into cities with walls. It allowed me higher building options, large walls , etc. I didn`t get to explore it too much as a saurmation horde swept thru my lands and pretty much ended the game. The question is, do the getai still have this reform? Iv played them since , but not to that level of development.

[QuintusSertorius]

Got a question. On 2.01 I got a getai reform by developing 3 settlements into cities with walls. It allowed me higher building options, large walls , etc. I didn`t get to explore it too much as a saurmation horde swept thru my lands and pretty much ended the game. The question is, do the getai still have this reform? Iv played them since , but not to that level of development.

That script hasn't been touched, so I'd assume it's the same.