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Thread: [Official] Reform requirements - as at 2.3

  1. #21
    Laetus
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Some things I concluded from looking at the code as well, hopefully this helps a bit.


    Aedui & Aruernoi
    & Sweboz & Lugiones

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The events don't seem to be implemented yet (or at least I can't find them).


    Baktria

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The tribute is bugged from what I hear, not sure why, maybe historic events can only fire once per game?


    Hayasdan

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I think it gives you the ability to build the royal satrap in multiple provinces but I can't tell if it just allows one or if you will slowly gain more. It's also bugged because the Saka script was copied and it still refers to Saka for removing the point at faction turn end so I don't know if it'll work.


    Numidia

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Pretty sure this refers to converting a nomad camp to a settled town/city.


    Saka Rauka

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I gather you gain points on basis of your leaders authority and the size of your empire and you can spend points to build the highest level of government (royal domain). Same as Hayasdan I'm not clear on how many you will be able to build. It also deducts points for every royal domain and unlike Hayasdan it also deducts points for having the building in your cap which might not be intended and might also you over I can't tell either way.


    Sauromatae

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I haven't checked but I assume it's a government form available in settled regions called a tributary based no the name of the counter.

  2. #22
    Laetus
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Ah I forgot the Baktria tribute being bugged doesn't interfere with the independence, also where is the edit button.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    I very quickly tested the baktria one, since it was easy to do so. I got the event all right. Refused it once and they didn't like it. Next winter they asked for triple the mnai, once I refused that it was instant war. Seemed to work fine to me (I didn't test further, would have required me to play).

    EDIT
    interesting info about the rest, I'll look into it later though.

  4. #24
    Laetus
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    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Somewhere on these forums or on the .org (or both I don't remember) I read that if you pay the event won't happen again. I haven't actually tested this though.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Allright, re-tested by accepting, and the event popped up again next winter. Maybe it stops appearing after a while, but I don't really know about that.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    The event appears in every 4 turns (winter?), but you will actually pay the first tribute only. After that, even if you agree to pay, you will not lose a penny.

    C

  7. #27

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Strange. That script did work for me. It kept popping up every 4 turns, and the same amount was deduced from my treasury every time i agreed. The scipts for the Basileus forgiving you and recognising your independence afterward worked perfectly as well

  8. #28

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    About the reforms of Pergamon.

    I have 21 settlements and turn 215.

    Did not get any message, event, or advisor text, telling me of the Middle and Late Era's reforms. Nor i saw anything different when i reached 11/21 settlements. (probably just placeholder for later versions?)

    And i suggest for the next version the requirements for the Attalid Kingdom reform to be "Own Nikaia, Ipsos, Sardis Pergamon and Ankyra, and Win 2 major land battles against AS (defeat at least 11 units using over 1000 soldiers)". If possible, add "Own Ankyra for X turns".

    Taking out the requirements to battle Eleutheroi, because:

    a) If another faction captures Ankyra before Pergamon does, the chances of the player doing the reform is pratically nulified.

    b) Taking out the chance of another faction capturing it first, it still is quite impossible to do because the way it is now you must fight 2 LAND battles against 2 different Eleutheroi armies with at least 11 units. They do not have that big an army, and even though i know they can recruit, this reform requirement leaves too much to chance to stay in the mod IMHO (i mean it leaves to chance even more than the Imperial reform in EB1 lol)

    c) One way to do it now is to have 2 of your armies rebel in Galatia. Which though it will fulfil the reform requirements, it is -VERY- gamey and completely destroys the point of having those requirements. Its supposed to represent fighting galatians, and not having, on purpose, to defect 1 of your generals so you can destroy that army.

    So IMO either you create a script where:

    It checks if Pergamon has Ankyra, if its true a Galatian Eleutheroi army spawns (only 1 army is enough) with a general around Ankyra. When the Eleutheroi army is defeated by Pergamon (and only Pergamon) the reform is triggered. Though it also creates problems if another faction destroys that army, what would happen? Another galatian eleutheroi army is spawned until a) Pergamon is the one that defeats it or b)Ankyra is captured by the rebels (and b doesnt triggers the reform)

    OR you could simply, and IMO the best option, to require Pergamon only to OWN Ankyria for at least 20 years (80 Turns), while keeping the other requirements such as the 2 land battles against Arche Seleukeia and owning Ipsos, Nikaia, Sardis and Pergamon.
    Then, as throngs of his enemies bore down upon him and one of his followers said, "They are making at thee, O King," "Who else, pray," said Antigonus, "should be their mark? But Demetrius will come to my aid." This was his hope to the last, and to the last he kept watching eagerly for his son; then a whole cloud of javelins were let fly at him and he fell.

    -Plutarch, life of Demetrius.

    Arche Aiakidae-Epeiros EB2 AAR

  9. #29

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpelicity View Post
    then maybe I'm reading it wrong? Sweboz was weird, it's scripted in another file, where it seemed pretty straightforward, but either I'm reading it wrong, either it's not working. Again, I could use some help here.
    The Sweboz Reform was just a placeholder to ensure that eventually they can build their "late era" units.

    KH has an enormously complex system that currently doesn't work. Same is probably true of some of the others (Hayasdan seems not to work, although it was supposed to). Other than one or two cases, we just didn't have time to test all of these before the release. Great thread though!
    EBII Council

  10. #30

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Yeah really awesome thread. How does becoming a kingdom with Armenia or Baktria actually influence gameplay though?

  11. #31

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    hi.. i managed to get the pan-causes message come up for the haysadan reform, but nothing happened.
    i wasn't able to upgrade the government buildings at all..

    you need to have acquired the same 7 core provinces as in eb1 to get the pan-causes message..

    keep up the good work guys

  12. #32

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Funny, that's not how it's scripted. In the script it's about number of provinces and infrastructure. Maybe that was coincidental in your case?

    There was someone in the thread that said you needed Armavir to be a certain size to build the government type. Sounds weird, but maybe that's the problem you're having jamminj?

  13. #33
    Mamertine's Avatar Tiro
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    The Dale of Scott
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    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Any other reforms planned for the future? Anything for KH, Makedonia?

    Plans for a big one like Armenia remaking the the Persian Empire in EB1? How about the Getae remaking the Odryssian Empire?
    When Hiero returned to besiege their base (Messana) in 265 BC the Mamertines called for help from a nearby fleet from Carthage, which occupied the harbor of Messana. Seeing this, the Syracuse forces retired, not wishing to confront Carthaginian forces. Uncomfortable under the Cathaginian "protection," the Mamertines now appealed to Rome to be allowed into the protection of the Roman people. At first, the Romans did not wish to come to the aid of soldiers who had unjustly stolen a city from its rightful possessors. However, unwilling to see Carthaginian power spread further over Sicily and get too close to Italy, Rome responded by entering into an alliance with the Mamertines. In response, Syracuse allied itself with Carthage, imploring their protection. With Rome and Carthage brought into conflict, the Syracuse/Mamertine conflict escalated into the First Punic War.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    If I read the script right, the Pritanoi "reform" is in two stages: first the Pritanoi become a kingdom, which allows the building of the highest factional govt in the British Isles, allowing the recruiting of companion units. For this, they need to build 1 market_two, 2 L_2 temples of different gods, 3 ports, and to train 9 cavalry units.

    Then the size of the kingdom is judged -- if small (>2 and<5 regions with 4th level factional govt), 2nd level factional govts lose their law bonus; if it's large (>4 and<7 regions with 4th level factional govt), 2nd and 3rd level lose their law bonuses; and if huge (>6 regions with 4th level factional govt) they all lose their law bonuses.
    Last edited by Ballpoint202; September 07, 2014 at 10:24 PM.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Yeah really awesome thread. How does becoming a kingdom with Armenia or Baktria actually influence gameplay though?
    You can build Basilike Patris - highest gov building - in provinces that are a metropolis and have a 3rd level settler building. No idea if that changes anything for the Baktria roster, but Iīll report here if it does (I have yet to build the metropolis in Baktra).

    And the Independence Script really is a bit bugged:

    - I only had to pay 3000 mnai once (very first winter)
    - I didnīt get the triple pay event mentioned above after refusing to pay once
    - I didnīt get instant war after refusing to pay twice in a row, relations jumped from poor to abysmal though
    - AS wanted to accept me back as a vassal after every turn we had more than 3 and less than 9 battles, if I understand the script correctly it should only happen once, after 3 battles.

    The good thing is that nothing is game-breaking

  16. #36

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    @Simpelicity ya, i read the code also, but i only got the event message after i had taken the selucids city of karkatohpia (excuse my spelling) i had 7+ provinces already before i took that settlement.. armiver is over 12k populace with all buildings built, and most of the others are highly developed. ive tried knocking down n rebuilding the government building to see if that would kick start the new government buildings, but to no avail.. further in the script it does say armiver needs to be over 50% religion, wondering if that is messing it up..
    also, an event message about the kh reform had popped up a few turns before hand, but they had been wiped out completely alot earlier by mac..
    it would seems the reforms are not quite right at the moment

  17. #37

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Ballpoint202 View Post
    If I read the script right, the Pritanoi "reform" is in two stages: first the Pritanoi become a kingdom, which allows the building of the highest factional govt in the British Isles, allowing the recruiting of companion units. For this, they need to build 1 market_two, 2 L_2 temples of different gods, 3 ports, and to train 9 cavalry units.

    Then the size of the kingdom is judged -- if small (>2 and<5 regions with 4th level factional govt), 2nd level factional govts lose their law bonus; if it's large (>4 and<7 regions with 4th level factional govt), 2nd and 3rd level lose their law bonuses; and if huge (>6 regions with 4th level factional govt) they all lose their law bonuses.
    Ooh very interesting. I hadn't seen these scripts. There's scripts for more factions than just Pritanoi, I'll have to look into this. Although they're called casse in there, I wonder if that breaks the script or not.
    On a side note, you misread ">" on a lot of the script (I'll correct that when I have time to work on it). And the size of the kingdom isn't part of the reform process. It's a size penalty. I've seen it for celtic factions as well.

    @Malibu What's really worrisome is that the script seems to be reacting differently in different games, which is, to all ends and purposes, impossible. Unless, of course, we have different versions of the game. So a quick question for you : what have you installed on EBII aside from the main download? New CAI, modesty patch, name it all. And one more question : Steam version or retail version?

  18. #38

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpelicity View Post
    Ooh very interesting. I hadn't seen these scripts. There's scripts for more factions than just Pritanoi, I'll have to look into this. Although they're called casse in there, I wonder if that breaks the script or not.
    Internal faction names (i.e. those used by the M2TW engine) are sometimes different from the "visible" faction name. That is true of Pritanoi which are know to the engine as "f_casse". Changing internal names (which should NEVER be visible to the player unless they are rooting around in the text files) is an invitation to CTD, so please don't do that. There are no instances we know of where the external faction name (in the few cases where it's different) was mistakenly used internally.
    EBII Council

  19. #39

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Hahaha don't worry I'm not that dumb. I'm just reading and translating the stuff, I ain't messing around with it

    Updated the OP with Pritanoi and KH.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    @Malibu What's really worrisome is that the script seems to be reacting differently in different games, which is, to all ends and purposes, impossible. Unless, of course, we have different versions of the game. So a quick question for you : what have you installed on EBII aside from the main download? New CAI, modesty patch, name it all. And one more question : Steam version or retail version?
    He, Iīve seen much weirder things when I scripted missions for Operation Flashpoint and Arma II

    ref your questions:

    - clean install of MTWII+Kingdoms+EBII, nothing else
    - CAI v2
    - added Bactria to the factions which are able to convert camps to towns before starting the campaign (+ deleted the map file)
    - postive character traits submod

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