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Thread: [Official] Reform requirements - as at 2.3

  1. #361

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Doesn't matter where the Congress is, the Archons have to go to Korinthos to trigger the next stage of the reforms.

  2. #362

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Doesn't matter where the Congress is, the Archons have to go to Korinthos to trigger the next stage of the reforms.
    Thank you.

  3. #363
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Roman reforms get screwed up easily:

    1. They have to defeat (attack) four large Eleutheroi stacks in Cisalpine Gaul.
    2. Assaulting cities doesn't count.
    3. Starting rebel stacks of Cisalpine Gaul tend to wander into Roman land and attack Arretium. Defeating them there doesn't count.

    Player quickly runs out of large rebel stacks in Cisalpine Gaul, and the reform is delayed 150 turns if he doesn't secure four big victories before rebels there are gone.

    My suggestion: Change the requirement here to EITHER won 4 battles or OWNS 4 of the settlements in the region.

    Also, it'd be nice to copy Pergamon's after-battle events and tell the Roman player that he's secured a victory necessary for the reform.

  4. #364

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    You have to add the problem of getai taking over the zone before you do if you focus south xD

    Still, I never saw the rebel stacks trespassing and atacking anything. Just brigands spawned already in the territory. But maybe I just havent played enough. I only tried romans 2-3 times

    We will either find a way, or make one.


  5. #365
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Still, I never saw the rebel stacks trespassing and atacking anything.
    Just start with Romans at H or higher and wait a few turns. Ariminum is guaranteed to be attacked.

  6. #366

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    I always play H. And I had campaign over 100 turns with them and the only rebels that atacked my cities were spawned brigands.
    It may have changed with the new patch though.

    We will either find a way, or make one.


  7. #367
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Reform requirements

    No idea how you missed that attack then. I always prepare for it... First defeat these Gauls, then Taras, then take Lilibeo and Sardinia/Corsica from Carthage. Then Sicily and Rhegion. Then Cisalpine Gaul and Marseille/Illyria...

  8. #368

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    I ussually take Taras, Rhegion and get rid of the stacks once I have the resources to spare and Im tired of the devastation. They never atacked Arretium in my plays.

    We will either find a way, or make one.


  9. #369
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Reform requirements

    A quick rewrite for KH, to make it clearer:

    Steps to reform your government as Koinon Hellenon:

    Step I
    You must control three Hellenistic Metropolis buildings.

    At the beginning of the game, the following cities have this building: Athens, Korinthos, Syracuse, Ephesos, Alexandria and Pergamon. Antioch may or may not have it depending on version and developer decision. You can later upgrade other cities to that level, but it's much quicker and easier to conquer additional two cities from the above list, while not losing your starting capital.

    Step II
    Build the Congress building in any of your cities. It becomes available once you've completed Step I. I suggest building it in Korinthos, but it's not required to be there. You'll get an event message once you've built it.

    Step III
    You need to upgrade to four Symmachikon Koinon (Allied League) government buildings in four of your cities. It's a building that takes 8 turns to build and its icon is a little orange horse. It becomes available after you've built the Congress.

    Step IV
    Gather four Archons in Korinthos and have them stay there for a full year (4 turns). Not the city where you've built the Congress but specifically in Korinthos. You'll get an event message once you complete this step.

    1. You start with archons of Sparta and Athens. Send them to Korinthos right away, once you've secured the city.
    2. You start owning Rhodos with the right government type and have two influential Rhodian characters, one of whom will become an archon soon enough. Whoever becomes the archon, send him to Korinthos (that's 3 out of 4 archons ready).
    3. You need to conquer another city where an archon can be named (one of Ambrakia, Thermon, Pella, Demetrias, Korinthos, Knossos, Salamis or Ephesos), build the right government type there ("Polis en Symmachia kai Philia (Allied City State)", it is the government type of your starting cities) and adopt into the family a character from their nationality. Make sure he has at least 1 influence and wait.
    4. For example, conquer Knossos, build the same government building there as the one you start with in Athens (or higher), adopt a family member with at least 1 influence and "Kres" nationality and wait a couple turns. He'll become your fourth archon. If you aren't offered the right guy for adoption, try fighting rebel stacks with armies led by captains, if they win, you may adopt them into your family tree, maybe one of them will have the right nationality. If his influence is too low, just let him lead armies in combat, he'll get some influence quickly from that.
    5. It is possible some other random guy will become an archon even though he should not. It's also possible that one guy will have multiple archonates. It'll will work if you put such a guy into Korinthos with "legit" archons, even though he got his trait in a buggy way.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    To promote a Family Member into an archon as KH, you must:

    1. Own either of the archonate cities: (Ambrakia, Thermon, Pella, Demetrias, Korinthos, Knossos, Salamis, Athenai, Sparte, Rhodos or Ephesos).
    2. Not have an archon ruling that city yet (obviously).
    3. Have kh2 government built in the archonate city. kh2 means "Polis en Symmachia kai Philia (Allied City State)", it is the starting government of Athens, Sparta and Rhodos.
    4. Have a character who is of the right nationality, for example "Kres" for Krete.
    5. That character must have at least 1 Influence.
    6. He doesn't need to be present in the city in question. He'll get the trait as soon as he's eligible to get it, wherever on the map he is.


    STEP V
    Simpoliteia revolt. Start building Simpoliteia government that's just become available in two of your cities. Once they complete building (takes 16 turns), your reform will be completed. You'll get an event message when you begin and end this step.

    STEP VI
    You are finally reformed and can build Simpoliteia everywhere else.
    Two bugs I notice:
    1. Archon still gets awarded to a random guy, who isn't of the required nationality and who is often an archon of something else.
    2. Simpoliteia sometimes becomes available in various cities even though the first two Simoliteias haven't completed yet.

    Other than that, all working fine.
    Last edited by delra; August 03, 2015 at 10:46 AM.

  10. #370

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    The text is great. Two small notes though.

    Ephesus has a metropolis too.
    Syracusa is easier to conquer but more difficult to control early on. Apart of not been easy to move troops theres it ussually ends atacked by either Roman, Kart-Hadast or both. Been at war with them early on is usually not great.
    Still been one of the few cities where you can have your best goverment you will want it sooner or later.

    A quick question, what was the culture limit for the KH goverment conversion?

    We will either find a way, or make one.


  11. #371
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Reform requirements

    I don't know what the limit is, it works all over Greece. KH has messed up colonization anyway, can't build a polis even on Krete. Colonization is the main thing that makes Pergamon into the best Greek faction, really. ;-\

  12. #372

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Jervaj View Post
    The text is great. Two small notes though.

    Ephesus has a metropolis too.
    Syracusa is easier to conquer but more difficult to control early on. Apart of not been easy to move troops theres it ussually ends atacked by either Roman, Kart-Hadast or both. Been at war with them early on is usually not great.
    Still been one of the few cities where you can have your best goverment you will want it sooner or later.

    A quick question, what was the culture limit for the KH goverment conversion?
    Yep, though the addition of Ephesos is new. Antiocheia now also has a polis_three, though that might change back to polis_two again.

    The limit for KH government buildings conversion is 50%.

    Quote Originally Posted by delra View Post
    KH has messed up colonization anyway, can't build a polis even on Krete. Colonization is the main thing that makes Pergamon into the best Greek faction, really. ;-\
    It's not "messed up" for KH, their days of colonisation are passed. It is a deliberate design choice that they cannot found new polis or colonies, though they can use both. You're supposed to unite the existing polis' as KH, not start up new ones.

  13. #373
    clone's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Yep, though the addition of Ephesos is new. Antiocheia now also has a polis_three, though that might change back to polis_two again.

    The limit for KH government buildings conversion is 50%.



    It's not "messed up" for KH, their days of colonisation are passed. It is a deliberate design choice that they cannot found new polis or colonies, though they can use both. You're supposed to unite the existing polis' as KH, not start up new ones.
    fair enought. can you at least give krete already a lvl 1 polis
    When a nation forgets her skill in war, when her religion becomes a mockery, when the whole nation becomes a nation of money-grabbers, then the wild tribes, the barbarians drive in... Who will our invaders be? From whence will they come?
    Robert E. Howard



  14. #374

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by clone View Post
    fair enought. can you at least give krete already a lvl 1 polis
    It does already have one - why do you think KH is able to recruit anything from there at all? And is trivially easy to upgrade - KH can still upgrade polis buildings that are already there, as any Hellenistic faction can. Not only that, unlike any other faction, they have a conversion bonus simply for having their government building in place.

  15. #375
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Reform requirements

    You're supposed to unite the existing polis' as KH
    List of all polis buildings from descr_strat with their level:

    Macedonia: Pella 2, Demetrias 2, Korinthos 3
    Epeiros: Ambrakia 2, Taras 2, Epidamnos 1
    Koinon: Athens 3, Sparte 2, Rhodos 2
    Seleucids: Seleukeia 1, Sardis 1, Antioch 3, Edessa 1
    Ptolemies: Alexandria 3, Ephesos 3, Halikarnassos 2, Side 1, Salamis 1, Memphis 1
    Baktria: Baktria 2
    Pergamon: Pergamon 3
    Bosporans: Pantikapaion 2
    Rebel: Massalia 1, Rhegion 1, Messana 1, Syracuse 3, Thermon 2, Knossos 1, Byzantion 1, Sinope 1, Chersonesos 1, Kyrene 1
    So basically: No Ipsos, Nikaia, Tarsos here. No Trapezous or Emporion, to name a few most notable Greek colonies that aren't here on the list. Histria and Olbia aren't for KH either. Nor is Alalia, that'd link Massalia and Syracuse at least a little. No way of building a polis there at all, ever. :-( 1/3 Greek culture city like Side gets a polis, while 50% Greek Nikaia does not ever get one.

    What you say would make for a nice campaign, but then you hit this invisible wall of certain cities not having a polis nor a chance for a polis and that just leads to a quit. It's just frustrating when you have your own definition of the "Greek" world for unification as KH, but the game's buildings don't fit with it. :-(
    Last edited by delra; August 03, 2015 at 11:02 AM.

  16. #376

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by delra View Post
    List of all polis buildings from descr_strat with their level:



    So basically: No Ipsos, Nikaia, Tarsos here. No Trapezous or Emporion, to name a few most notable Greek colonies that aren't here on the list. Histria and Olbia aren't for KH either. Nor is Alalia, that'd link Massalia and Syracuse at least a little. No way of building a polis there at all, ever. :-( 1/3 Greek culture city like Side gets a polis, while 50% Greek Nikaia does not ever get one.

    What you say would make for a nice campaign, but then you hit this invisible wall of certain cities not having a polis nor a chance for a polis and that just leads to a quit. It's just frustrating when you have your own definition of the "Greek" world for unification as KH, but the game's buildings don't fit with it. :-(
    So the only reason to play a KH campaign is to upgrade polis buildings?

    Placement of polis buildings is neither random nor haphazard. It's not simply about the level of "Greek-ness" in a region, but also about the forms of government, cultural norms and so on. I discovered this with a submod a while back, the only one that had been missed was Syrakousai. Sorry, but your definition of "the Greek world" is simply wrong, insofar as places where a very particular form of community organisation was still relevant. Which is what the polis represents.

    Not only that, but while it's unpredictable, the AI can build them without having to worry about colonists (because the condition is always on for them). So if you take your time, you may find that the AI factions have built some new ones in suitable places.

    I should finally note, if you don't like it, it's a trivially easy edit of the descr_strat. Get yourself Notepad++ (do not try this with Notepad). Find the settlement you want. Paste this in there:

    Code:
    building
    	{
    		type hinterland_hellenistic_polis polis_one
    	}
    Save, delete your map.rwm, start a new campaign.
    Last edited by QuintusSertorius; August 03, 2015 at 11:11 AM.

  17. #377
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Sorry, but your definition of "the Greek world" is simply wrong
    Erm. But your mod does exactly what I suggest. You have added a polis in Nikaia, Olbia, Trapezous... Basically, you agree with me and disagree with the faction's historian. :-D

  18. #378

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by delra View Post
    Erm. But your mod does exactly what I suggest. You have added a polis in Nikaia, Olbia, Trapezous... Basically, you agree with me and disagree with the faction's historian. :-D
    My outdated submod, which isn't even compatible with anything post-2.01.

  19. #379

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    When running a test to make sure reform requirements work as intended, does it matter if I play on Easy/Easy? Pontus is giving me a headache.

  20. #380
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Reform requirements

    You can just auto_win everything....

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