[Official] Reform requirements - as at 2.3

[Mantaprey]

There is no grand notification yet you will see it in the building options.

There is a Pritanoi Kingdom Emerges notification and it does work.

[QuintusSertorius]

So that there could be an announcement attached to them (rather than silently happening without any notification for the player), I moved the ecSwebozEra and exLugianEra (note the "n" in the second one) counters to the campaign script. They're still randomly occurring between two dates.

These are the triggers for the late unit roster for Sweboz and Lugiones.

[Simpelicity]

I did note the "n", that's why I said they don't increase the same counter. What does the lugian-specific script increase then?

[Boogie Knight]

So, no word yet on what the Aedui/Auernoi reform requirements are? Couldn't one of the devs just tell us?

[Cohors_Evocata]

So, no word yet on what the Aedui/Auernoi reform requirements are? Couldn't one of the devs just tell us?

Not one of the devs, but I remembered these posts from quite some time ago. Warning: what follows could very well be outdated. Also, to prevent disappointment: this is no full answer of how any potential Celtic reform should be triggered.

Source 1
Source 2 (Scroll down to the interview of Brennus)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

*Atergkeltôn - Celtic Reforms

The Celtic world c.200 B.C. (other sources say c.150 B.C.) underwent a vast and somewhat sweeping change on the continent. Burials appear with more and more iron weapons and items. Shields become reinforced with extra metal components and the shield bosses enlarge over time. Outside of military uses iron farming implements, tools, personal items, and common household items turn up in much greater quantities than before. This great increase in iron output was not a lone regional oddity but can be traced all over continental Europe, especially within the burial panoplies by comparing early 3rd century B.C. burials with ones after 200 B.C. As in EB1 there will be 3 reform periods that will take place for the Celtic factions. When these reforms happen certain units within the factional rosters will, in essence, upgrade to a more powerful and deadly (also more expensive) version. Among these chronological changes come new helmets for certain units (such as Montefortinos giving way to Port or Agen style helmets on some units), the amount of leather and chainmail armor they use, and even the bosses upon their shield will progresses from smaller bosses to large ones in the later La Tene period which is represented in the last reform. These sweeping changes, however, will be restricted to certain noble units and some widespread units from the middle class. Archers and other low end units will not change in appearance. In addition, during these reforms certain units will appear that were not encountered before within your kingdom, denoting changes within the inner workings of Celtic society as it transitions from chiefdoms and monarchies to semi-feudal societies governed by nobles and senators, the magistrates and constitutional law, and the mighty uergobretoi. These leading men, in turn, are supported by their ever increasing number of vassals and men-at-arms both on foot and on horseback which can signal the slow decline of the free middle class.

Q: Regarding the reforms in EBII (namely the Celtic reforms, although if you have information on others, I wouldn't stop you from enlightening us), how much will the reforms be optional? That is, are they like the EBI reforms, where developing your settlements (or another faction developing their settlements) led to the reforms, or will they be based more on the long-term policy that you (the player) take, and may-or-may-not occur in any particular campaign?

A: I will try to answer this as best I can but I warn you I may be wrong. The reforms will be linked to settlement size and the number of regions held. Unfortunately this means that they will not be optional, you can however avoid them by not doing much. Sorry it’s not much of an explanation, but I am not entirely sure of the correct answer.

[Simpelicity]

To answer the more immediate question : there are no celtic reforms yet.

[MisterFred]

I'm having some problem with the Koinon Hellenon reforms. I got three metropoli quite easily. I started with Athens, conquered Corinth, and upgrade Rhodos to a metropolis. I didn't have a problem building the congress: I built it in Rhodos, got the Congress event. I upgraded four cities to the KH4 government (and then, later, more cities to the KH4 government). Got the event telling me to gather my Archons. I did, in Rhodos, the city where the Congress was built. Then... nothing.

I have four Archons from different cities there. And when that didn't work after 20 turns, I added a fifth FM with two archon titles. So that's 5 FMs and six archon titles. It's been another 25 turns with them in Rhodos... nothing. Here are my guesses where I went wrong:

They have to be in a particular city that's not Rhodos. Corinth?
They have to be in my capital (currently Corinth).
Rhodos, where the archons are, needs the KH4 government. (I left it at Congress, assuming that mattered somehow.)

Can anyone confirm one of the above?

[QuintusSertorius]

Doesn't matter where the Congress is, the Archons have to go to Korinthos to trigger the next stage of the reforms.

[MisterFred]

Doesn't matter where the Congress is, the Archons have to go to Korinthos to trigger the next stage of the reforms.

Thank you.

[delra]

Roman reforms get screwed up easily:

1. They have to defeat (attack) four large Eleutheroi stacks in Cisalpine Gaul.
2. Assaulting cities doesn't count.
3. Starting rebel stacks of Cisalpine Gaul tend to wander into Roman land and attack Arretium. Defeating them there doesn't count.

Player quickly runs out of large rebel stacks in Cisalpine Gaul, and the reform is delayed 150 turns if he doesn't secure four big victories before rebels there are gone.

My suggestion: Change the requirement here to EITHER won 4 battles or OWNS 4 of the settlements in the region.

Also, it'd be nice to copy Pergamon's after-battle events and tell the Roman player that he's secured a victory necessary for the reform.

[Jervaj]

You have to add the problem of getai taking over the zone before you do if you focus south xD

Still, I never saw the rebel stacks trespassing and atacking anything. Just brigands spawned already in the territory. But maybe I just havent played enough. I only tried romans 2-3 times

[delra]

Still, I never saw the rebel stacks trespassing and atacking anything.

Just start with Romans at H or higher and wait a few turns. Ariminum is guaranteed to be attacked.

[Jervaj]

I always play H. And I had campaign over 100 turns with them and the only rebels that atacked my cities were spawned brigands.
It may have changed with the new patch though.

[delra]

No idea how you missed that attack then. I always prepare for it... First defeat these Gauls, then Taras, then take Lilibeo and Sardinia/Corsica from Carthage. Then Sicily and Rhegion. Then Cisalpine Gaul and Marseille/Illyria...

[Jervaj]

I ussually take Taras, Rhegion and get rid of the stacks once I have the resources to spare and Im tired of the devastation. They never atacked Arretium in my plays.

[delra]

A quick rewrite for KH, to make it clearer:

Steps to reform your government as Koinon Hellenon:

Step I
You must control three Hellenistic Metropolis buildings.

At the beginning of the game, the following cities have this building: Athens, Korinthos, Syracuse, Ephesos, Alexandria and Pergamon. Antioch may or may not have it depending on version and developer decision. You can later upgrade other cities to that level, but it's much quicker and easier to conquer additional two cities from the above list, while not losing your starting capital.

Step II
Build the Congress building in any of your cities. It becomes available once you've completed Step I. I suggest building it in Korinthos, but it's not required to be there. You'll get an event message once you've built it.

Step III
You need to upgrade to four Symmachikon Koinon (Allied League) government buildings in four of your cities. It's a building that takes 8 turns to build and its icon is a little orange horse. It becomes available after you've built the Congress.

Step IV
Gather four Archons in Korinthos and have them stay there for a full year (4 turns). Not the city where you've built the Congress but specifically in Korinthos. You'll get an event message once you complete this step.

1. You start with archons of Sparta and Athens. Send them to Korinthos right away, once you've secured the city.
2. You start owning Rhodos with the right government type and have two influential Rhodian characters, one of whom will become an archon soon enough. Whoever becomes the archon, send him to Korinthos (that's 3 out of 4 archons ready).
3. You need to conquer another city where an archon can be named (one of Ambrakia, Thermon, Pella, Demetrias, Korinthos, Knossos, Salamis or Ephesos), build the right government type there ("Polis en Symmachia kai Philia (Allied City State)", it is the government type of your starting cities) and adopt into the family a character from their nationality. Make sure he has at least 1 influence and wait.
4. For example, conquer Knossos, build the same government building there as the one you start with in Athens (or higher), adopt a family member with at least 1 influence and "Kres" nationality and wait a couple turns. He'll become your fourth archon. If you aren't offered the right guy for adoption, try fighting rebel stacks with armies led by captains, if they win, you may adopt them into your family tree, maybe one of them will have the right nationality. If his influence is too low, just let him lead armies in combat, he'll get some influence quickly from that.
5. It is possible some other random guy will become an archon even though he should not. It's also possible that one guy will have multiple archonates. It'll will work if you put such a guy into Korinthos with "legit" archons, even though he got his trait in a buggy way.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

To promote a Family Member into an archon as KH, you must:

1. Own either of the archonate cities: (Ambrakia, Thermon, Pella, Demetrias, Korinthos, Knossos, Salamis, Athenai, Sparte, Rhodos or Ephesos).
2. Not have an archon ruling that city yet (obviously).
3. Have kh2 government built in the archonate city. kh2 means "Polis en Symmachia kai Philia (Allied City State)", it is the starting government of Athens, Sparta and Rhodos.
4. Have a character who is of the right nationality, for example "Kres" for Krete.
5. That character must have at least 1 Influence.
6. He doesn't need to be present in the city in question. He'll get the trait as soon as he's eligible to get it, wherever on the map he is.

STEP V
Simpoliteia revolt. Start building Simpoliteia government that's just become available in two of your cities. Once they complete building (takes 16 turns), your reform will be completed. You'll get an event message when you begin and end this step.

STEP VI
You are finally reformed and can build Simpoliteia everywhere else.

Two bugs I notice:
1. Archon still gets awarded to a random guy, who isn't of the required nationality and who is often an archon of something else.
2. Simpoliteia sometimes becomes available in various cities even though the first two Simoliteias haven't completed yet.

Other than that, all working fine.

[Jervaj]

The text is great. Two small notes though.

Ephesus has a metropolis too.
Syracusa is easier to conquer but more difficult to control early on. Apart of not been easy to move troops theres it ussually ends atacked by either Roman, Kart-Hadast or both. Been at war with them early on is usually not great.
Still been one of the few cities where you can have your best goverment you will want it sooner or later.

A quick question, what was the culture limit for the KH goverment conversion?

[delra]

I don't know what the limit is, it works all over Greece. KH has messed up colonization anyway, can't build a polis even on Krete. Colonization is the main thing that makes Pergamon into the best Greek faction, really. ;-\

[QuintusSertorius]

The text is great. Two small notes though.

Ephesus has a metropolis too.
Syracusa is easier to conquer but more difficult to control early on. Apart of not been easy to move troops theres it ussually ends atacked by either Roman, Kart-Hadast or both. Been at war with them early on is usually not great.
Still been one of the few cities where you can have your best goverment you will want it sooner or later.

A quick question, what was the culture limit for the KH goverment conversion?

Yep, though the addition of Ephesos is new. Antiocheia now also has a polis_three, though that might change back to polis_two again.

The limit for KH government buildings conversion is 50%.

KH has messed up colonization anyway, can't build a polis even on Krete. Colonization is the main thing that makes Pergamon into the best Greek faction, really. ;-\

It's not "messed up" for KH, their days of colonisation are passed. It is a deliberate design choice that they cannot found new polis or colonies, though they can use both. You're supposed to unite the existing polis' as KH, not start up new ones.

[clone]

Yep, though the addition of Ephesos is new. Antiocheia now also has a polis_three, though that might change back to polis_two again.

The limit for KH government buildings conversion is 50%.



It's not "messed up" for KH, their days of colonisation are passed. It is a deliberate design choice that they cannot found new polis or colonies, though they can use both. You're supposed to unite the existing polis' as KH, not start up new ones.

fair enought. can you at least give krete already a lvl 1 polis