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Thread: [Official] Reform requirements - as at 2.3

  1. #341

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpelicity View Post
    There also seem to be misconceptions about the purpose of this thread...

    Confirmation that the early-mid-late eras of Pergamon have been scrapped, before I scrap it off the OP?
    Agreed. I was going to same similar but felt like I had to answer him xD

    We will either find a way, or make one.


  2. #342
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Reform requirements

    God forbid we went off-topic on a forum where a total of like 5 people are active. We'd never recover from the confusion. :-D

  3. #343

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Change made.

    Well if you bury the changes I'm supposed to make with stuff I barely pay attention to, you're making it unlikely the changes are gonna happen. That is all.

  4. #344
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Glad we cleared up Pergamon once and for all. So it actually works, and while at that in a way that's clear to everyone. Any other reforms that need clearing up ATM?

    For example, for Aedui & Aruernoi you have this:

    There's some script here, but I have no clue what purpose it serves.

  5. #345

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    The text I put there doesn't convey that it needs clearing up enough?

    Most factions would need to be reviewed, there've been a few too many patches and I haven't been keeping up with the changes.

  6. #346
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Why can't we just get a message at the beginning of the campaign saying: "Do this, this and this to take the next step in the reforms for your factions"... :-(

  7. #347

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    mmmmmwell it could be in the description of the faction I suppose. In a more vague way of course. Just describing what you should be aiming for during your campaign.

  8. #348

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Saba reform happens when these conditions are met:
    1.) Saba capital has under 30% of faction culture
    2.) The capital has either Adim malkan (Bondsmen of the king) or Mahrab Malkan (Royal Court) government building
    3.) A character is in the capital at the end of the turn

    - The most likely (and easiest) scenario is that the reform takes place in Maryab, where is Mahrab Malkan building from the beginning, when the eastern tribal states culture drops under 30%

    - If you lose or change your capital, then you'll have to build Adim malkan building in your capital (can't build Mahrab Malkan before the reforms). It can only be built in Arabia and Ethiopia (hidden resource arabian or ethiopia).


    I'm quite sure about this, but it's always good to to have confirmation.

  9. #349

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Well, in a rare occurence both time and interest have coincided. I'm patching to 2.4 to check it out later. Assuming I still have time later. At least it'll be patched for the next time I have time and am motivated. So yeah I'll double-check Samson, thx for telling me though

  10. #350

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Okay I started reading the campaign script and comparing with OP, and right in the first script (Rome), you have these couple lines :

    monitor_event PostBattle FactionType f_rome
    and TargetFactionType f_carthage

    Does "FactionType" mean it has to be this faction's turn? Maybe, maybe not. This script makes it look like it. But it's not definitive either. It's just that if "FactionType" could detect the other guy as well as the guy who's turn it is, then why use "TargetFactionType" instead of "FactionType" again?

  11. #351

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    I have verified the script for Rome, Baktria and Pontos. Baktria needed some corrections (that punitive expedition is new, and the tribute seems to have increased), otherwise I'm just adding the fact that it probably needs to be your turn, and against family members, for the battles to count.

    I will continue later if interest and time coincide again. Provided the game isn't patched some more by then. Y'all feel free to continue checking other factions though ^.^

  12. #352
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Reform requirements

    There's some inconsequence in the Pritanoi reform.

    1. (Among other things) You need three level 3 temples to reform.
    2. In order to build them, you need to upgrade your government to level three.
    3. To upgrade the government, you first need to build a market level three.
    4. For the reform itself, only two markets level three are required.

    You'll basically always have more markets than needed for the reform, because you need them to upgrade the government and then the temple. The market requirement is redundant here, it has to be met in order for other requirements to be met. If you have temples at that level, it means you also have the same amount of markets of that level. You can as well drop the Market Requirement from the script, or change it to another building (waystations+garrisons for example).

    It takes quite some time to accomplish, as you need three of your cities to triple in size (to 6k) before you can go on the lengthy route of upgrading the market, then the government, then the temple there. It takes 120 turns for the growth itself, then two dozen turns to get all the buildings in line. I did it on turn 148. I think it could maybe be done a little faster, but not by much. The timing seems just fine to me.

    The kingdom government is absolute crap compared to the previous government:
    - 1/4 of old government's happiness.
    - NO free upkeep slots at all.

    Basically, in terms of the government form, you're heavily downgrading rather than reforming. I think Prit Kingdom needs to be buffed quite a bit.

    Other than that, the reforms work fine and as described in the OP.
    Last edited by delra; July 27, 2015 at 06:05 PM.

  13. #353

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    There is no grand notification yet you will see it in the building options.
    There is a Pritanoi Kingdom Emerges notification and it does work.

  14. #354

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    I am not changing the OP for that, unless they change the script. But that's a good observation.

    Something else : some "Germanic Reforms" were added, they work for both Lugia and Sweboz, simultaneously. Now then, descr_events doesn't advance the SwebozEra anymore, so that's fine (even though the text saying that that's where it's advanced is still in the Reforms section of campaign-script). The previous lugian script is still there though, but they don't increase the same eventcounter. One increases LugiaEra, and the new Germanic reforms increase LugianEra. So, what's going on with the german eras?

  15. #355

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    So that there could be an announcement attached to them (rather than silently happening without any notification for the player), I moved the ecSwebozEra and exLugianEra (note the "n" in the second one) counters to the campaign script. They're still randomly occurring between two dates.

    These are the triggers for the late unit roster for Sweboz and Lugiones.

  16. #356

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    I did note the "n", that's why I said they don't increase the same counter. What does the lugian-specific script increase then?

  17. #357
    Boogie Knight's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Reform requirements

    So, no word yet on what the Aedui/Auernoi reform requirements are? Couldn't one of the devs just tell us?

  18. #358
    Cohors_Evocata's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Reform requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Boogie Knight View Post
    So, no word yet on what the Aedui/Auernoi reform requirements are? Couldn't one of the devs just tell us?
    Not one of the devs, but I remembered these posts from quite some time ago. Warning: what follows could very well be outdated. Also, to prevent disappointment: this is no full answer of how any potential Celtic reform should be triggered.

    Source 1
    Source 2 (Scroll down to the interview of Brennus)

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    *Atergkeltôn - Celtic Reforms






    The Celtic world c.200 B.C. (other sources say c.150 B.C.) underwent a vast and somewhat sweeping change on the continent. Burials appear with more and more iron weapons and items. Shields become reinforced with extra metal components and the shield bosses enlarge over time. Outside of military uses iron farming implements, tools, personal items, and common household items turn up in much greater quantities than before. This great increase in iron output was not a lone regional oddity but can be traced all over continental Europe, especially within the burial panoplies by comparing early 3rd century B.C. burials with ones after 200 B.C. As in EB1 there will be 3 reform periods that will take place for the Celtic factions. When these reforms happen certain units within the factional rosters will, in essence, upgrade to a more powerful and deadly (also more expensive) version. Among these chronological changes come new helmets for certain units (such as Montefortinos giving way to Port or Agen style helmets on some units), the amount of leather and chainmail armor they use, and even the bosses upon their shield will progresses from smaller bosses to large ones in the later La Tene period which is represented in the last reform. These sweeping changes, however, will be restricted to certain noble units and some widespread units from the middle class. Archers and other low end units will not change in appearance. In addition, during these reforms certain units will appear that were not encountered before within your kingdom, denoting changes within the inner workings of Celtic society as it transitions from chiefdoms and monarchies to semi-feudal societies governed by nobles and senators, the magistrates and constitutional law, and the mighty uergobretoi. These leading men, in turn, are supported by their ever increasing number of vassals and men-at-arms both on foot and on horseback which can signal the slow decline of the free middle class.
    Q: Regarding the reforms in EBII (namely the Celtic reforms, although if you have information on others, I wouldn't stop you from enlightening us), how much will the reforms be optional? That is, are they like the EBI reforms, where developing your settlements (or another faction developing their settlements) led to the reforms, or will they be based more on the long-term policy that you (the player) take, and may-or-may-not occur in any particular campaign?

    A:
    I will try to answer this as best I can but I warn you I may be wrong. The reforms will be linked to settlement size and the number of regions held. Unfortunately this means that they will not be optional, you can however avoid them by not doing much. Sorry it’s not much of an explanation, but I am not entirely sure of the correct answer.
    I tend to edit my posts once or several times after writing and uploading them. Please keep this in mind when reading a recent post of mine. Also, should someone, for some unimaginable reason, wish to rep me, please add your username in the process, so I can at least know whom to be grateful towards.

    My thanks in advance.

  19. #359

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    To answer the more immediate question : there are no celtic reforms yet.

  20. #360

    Default Re: Reform requirements

    I'm having some problem with the Koinon Hellenon reforms. I got three metropoli quite easily. I started with Athens, conquered Corinth, and upgrade Rhodos to a metropolis. I didn't have a problem building the congress: I built it in Rhodos, got the Congress event. I upgraded four cities to the KH4 government (and then, later, more cities to the KH4 government). Got the event telling me to gather my Archons. I did, in Rhodos, the city where the Congress was built. Then... nothing.

    I have four Archons from different cities there. And when that didn't work after 20 turns, I added a fifth FM with two archon titles. So that's 5 FMs and six archon titles. It's been another 25 turns with them in Rhodos... nothing. Here are my guesses where I went wrong:

    They have to be in a particular city that's not Rhodos. Corinth?
    They have to be in my capital (currently Corinth).
    Rhodos, where the archons are, needs the KH4 government. (I left it at Congress, assuming that mattered somehow.)

    Can anyone confirm one of the above?

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