[Official] Reform requirements - as at 2.3

[QuintusSertorius]

The ThorakitaiReform is now in 2.03 as a time-counter only; it's there for the armour upgrade of certain units, but since we have no new units before the summer release, it doesn't unlock anything. I could have copied the lines that start to lock or taper off units, but I'm not sure that would have added anything. Then you'd be losing units, without getting their replacements.

[Simpelicity]

Updated the OP with this info, thanks Thuycidides. Just a question though, you can build the simpoliteia revolt in any 2 settlements, or 2 specific settlements? If it's specific settlements, which ones?

[Thuycidides]

It has to be a settlement that already has the kh3 (congress) or kh4 (koinon admin) government. After all the reforms are complete, when you capture a new settlement, kh4 always has to be built before kh8 (member state government).

[Jervaj]

I had an issue, commented too in the 2.03 thread. I got the option to build congress despite not having 3 metropolis. I have 2 plus 6 poleis. If I start to build it it doesnt progress. I thought it was due to the archons but it seems that comes later somaybe its due to the fact it shouldnt be appearing in the first place.

[QuintusSertorius]

I had an issue, commented too in the 2.03 thread. I got the option to build congress despite not having 3 metropolis. I have 2 plus 6 poleis. If I start to build it it doesnt progress. I thought it was due to the archons but it seems that comes later somaybe its due to the fact it shouldnt be appearing in the first place.

Are you using the later updated script from the colony hotfix thread? If not, then the KH reform is broken and won't work in any case.

Otherwise, I'd wait til 2.03b - just a few more thing to check and it's done.

[Jervaj]

Yep I used that from the start as I was a while without playing so I installed everything and didnt played 2.03a without that

[QuintusSertorius]

Yep I used that from the start as I was a while without playing so I installed everything and didnt played 2.03a without that

The one from much later in the thread? The one in V.T. Marvin's original post doesn't have working KH reforms in it.

[Jervaj]

Ah, danm. That should be it. As I saw the initial post was edidted I thought I would be updated. I will have to start over again

Thanks for your help Quintus

[Thuycidides]

I conquered Korinth and Syracuse at least 5 times in order to test out whether the congress reform would work correctly.

[Titus le Chmakus]

Hi

After searching I couldn't find any infos on the new units ... Are the Marian (and Imperial) troops going to be included in the summer release ?

Thanks

[Cohors_Evocata]

Hi

After searching I couldn't find any infos on the new units ... Are the Marian (and Imperial) troops going to be included in the summer release ?

Thanks

Short answer: no.

Long answer: There might be a full Polybian roster in the upcoming summer release (adding to the current Camillan units), but the Marian units are not a short-term goal for the team, as there are other factions that are in a much more dire need of units than the Romans are. The Imperial units might even be scrapped from EB II altogether, although I believe the team hasn't made a full decision on that issue yet.

NOTE: I am not a member of the EB II team myself and what I wrote here is based on information provided by team on this forum and in other places.

[QuintusSertorius]

Short answer: no.

Long answer: There might be a full Polybian roster in the upcoming summer release (adding to the current Camillan units), but the Marian units are not a short-term goal for the team, as there are other factions that are in a much more dire need of units than the Romans are. The Imperial units might even be scrapped from EB II altogether, although I believe the team hasn't made a full decision on that issue yet.

NOTE: I am not a member of the EB II team myself and what I wrote here is based on information provided by team on this forum and in other places.

I'm certainly in favour of scrapping the Imperial roster altogether, I think it's a complete waste of time and effort (and unit slots) for the sake of something no one will ever see. But mine is just one voice, that's not the official line at all.

But as to the question, as we've said many, many times, the Marian roster is not a priority when the Polybian roster isn't even finished. And in any case, it's a much lower priority than many other units for other factions which don't even have a complete starting roster (Getai, Hayasdan, etc), never mind getting a reform-based change to their entire roster.

[Titus le Chmakus]

I'm certainly in favour of scrapping the Imperial roster altogether, I think it's a complete waste of time and effort (and unit slots) for the sake of something no one will ever see. But mine is just one voice, that's not the official line at all.

But as to the question, as we've said many, many times, the Marian roster is not a priority when the Polybian roster isn't even finished. And in any case, it's a much lower priority than many other units for other factions which don't even have a complete starting roster (Getai, Hayasdan, etc), never mind getting a reform-based change to their entire roster.

Well having a look to the period used in EBII, it is totally understandable that you will not use the Imperial reform. On the other hand, the Marian one is the most awaited from all the players who want to play as Rome ! Because it is the funniest part of their period !
But for sure, if you haven't finished the basic roster for some factions, then we cannot ask for some late roman reforms ! Anyway thanks for the job already done ! And keep it up for the rest !

[Thuycidides]

Well having a look to the period used in EBII, it is totally understandable that you will not use the Imperial reform. On the other hand, the Marian one is the most awaited from all the players who want to play as Rome ! Because it is the funniest part of their period !
But for sure, if you haven't finished the basic roster for some factions, then we cannot ask for some late roman reforms ! Anyway thanks for the job already done ! And keep it up for the rest !

My personal opinion is that factions like the Romans should have priority over the small regional powers when it comes to fleshing out units. The first EB had a fetish for hyphenated barbarian units, e.g. iberi-kelto-hellenic-elite-skirmisher-heavy infantry, where you could tell that someone got really carried away by his own imagination.

[Titus le Chmakus]

That's right ! Maybe the EB team should keep in mind that this mod is here to replace a crappy CA original R2TW game ! So we want to play Romans, Greeks and Egyptians again !!!

[Cohors_Evocata]

My personal opinion is that factions like the Romans should have priority over the small regional powers when it comes to fleshing out units. The first EB had a fetish for hyphenated barbarian units, e.g. iberi-kelto-hellenic-elite-skirmisher-heavy infantry, where you could tell that someone got really carried away by his own imagination.

With this I disagree: I think the EB team should focus on (regional) units shared by several factions first, as this benefits several factions at once immediately. Adding one or several Thracian units for example would immediately impact the campaign of at least three factions (Pergamon, Getai and Makedonia) and several other ones relatively close by. Adding Marian units by contrast only impacts one faction and said impact requires waiting at least several hundreds of turns before it can be felt. One tenet in the philosophy of this mod is that all factions receive the attention they deserve and focusing only on the Romans would go against this idea.

As to the historicity of several EB units, yeah at times it was quite dubious (anyone remember the Vasci elites? ), but cultural exchange certainly happened during this timeframe (although I agree EB probably went somewhat overboard on this front). Having said all that, this question is probably best answered by someone more knowledgeable on the matter.

That's right ! Maybe the EB team should keep in mind that this mod is here to replace a crappy CA original R2TW game ! So we want to play Romans, Greeks and Egyptians again !!!

Sorry dude, but EB II began its development several years before Rome 2 was even announced. The two entities are fundamentally independent from one another and the EB team has no obligation towards anyone disappointed with Rome 2.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I'm really curious about the fascination several people seem to have with the Marian and Imperial Roman units (which I personally don't find all that interesting anymore these days). I'm thinking about opening a seperate thread on the matter to avoid this one from going too far off-topic.

EDIT: Thread created over here. I suggest we move this discussion.

[QuintusSertorius]

With this I disagree. I think the EB team should focus on (regional) units shared by several factions first, as this benefits several factions at once immediately. Adding one or several Thracian units for example would immediately impact the campaign of at least three factions (Pergamon, Getai and Makedonia) and several other ones relatively close by. Adding Marian units by contrast only impacts one faction and said impact requires waiting at least several hundreds of turns before it can be felt. One tenet in the philosophy of this mod is that all factions receive the attention they deserve and focusing only on the Romans would go against this idea.

Indeed, the six planned Thraikian units would fill out a further third of the Getai's roster; add regionals that would impact Getai, Boii, Makedonia, Epeiros, Pergamon, Bosporans, Pontos, Seleukids, Ptolemaioi and Koinon Hellenon; and also add new units to at least four mercenary pools. It would do this from the very start of the game, for the entire duration of the game.

By contrast adding Marian Roman units impacts one faction; adds no regional units (though it removes the Italic regionals); adds nothing to the mercenary rosters (again removes the Italic troops as they appear). This doesn't happen until roughly 700 turns into the game.

[Titus le Chmakus]

I do agree with you 2 ! Focusing on several factions is much more important than focusing just on one of them, that is totally understandable. But the only thing is that we are talking about romans ! ROMANS guys ! The best civilization of the period !!! It would be like creating a soccer game without Real Madrid or and NBA game without San Antonio ... You are just leaving aside the best (or supposingly) units of the whole game. I'm just talking about Marian reform, not Imperial as it is useless I know.

Btw, historically, the Marian reform is essential in Rome's developpment. They have never been so dominant than after Marius came to reform the roman army, making it the first professional ever. And you would like to avoid an event that changed the face of the antique world ? That is what is not understandable in your views !

I hope you don't take this as an offence as it is not my goal ! I just wanted to try to convince you . Anyway thanks for the job.

[QuintusSertorius]

I do agree with you 2 ! Focusing on several factions is much more important than focusing just on one of them, that is totally understandable. But the only thing is that we are talking about romans ! ROMANS guys ! The best civilization of the period !!! It would be like creating a soccer game without Real Madrid or and NBA game without San Antonio ... You are just leaving aside the best (or supposingly) units of the whole game. I'm just talking about Marian reform, not Imperial as it is useless I know.

Btw, historically, the Marian reform is essential in Rome's developpment. They have never been so dominant than after Marius came to reform the roman army, making it the first professional ever. And you would like to avoid an event that changed the face of the antique world ? That is what is not understandable in your views !

I hope you don't take this as an offence as it is not my goal ! I just wanted to try to convince you . Anyway thanks for the job.

You're greatly over-estimating the impact of the Marian Reform, and the significance of the Marian legionaries themselves.

We're not avoiding them, we're saying other factions starting positions are a great deal more important than something occurring nearly 700 turns into the game.

[Sar1n]

I do agree with you 2 ! Focusing on several factions is much more important than focusing just on one of them, that is totally understandable. But the only thing is that we are talking about romans ! ROMANS guys ! The best civilization of the period !!! It would be like creating a soccer game without Real Madrid or and NBA game without San Antonio ... You are just leaving aside the best (or supposingly) units of the whole game. I'm just talking about Marian reform, not Imperial as it is useless I know.

Btw, historically, the Marian reform is essential in Rome's developpment. They have never been so dominant than after Marius came to reform the roman army, making it the first professional ever. And you would like to avoid an event that changed the face of the antique world ? That is what is not understandable in your views !

I hope you don't take this as an offence as it is not my goal ! I just wanted to try to convince you . Anyway thanks for the job.

What people seem to forget a lot is that EB focuses on earlier peroid than Roman dominance. Marian reforms occured around 107 BC (the process was a bit more gradual), which is nearly 700 turns into game. Most of players will be done by then. Although the Rome did go from unimportant wannabe-hellenic state (at least according to Greeks) to the important player in Mediterranean, most of the time they were using typical Polybian system (although it was already breaking down during Punic wars, and headed toward more monolithic equipment which was ratified by Marian reforms).

Anyway, back to topic...where can I find what exactly (especially regarding the rosters) reforms do as of now (2.03c)?