[Official] Reform requirements - as at 2.3

[V.T. Marvin]

To clarify the camp-to-city conversion process:

In convertible camp type settlements one can build either HERDS or FARMS (or a combination of these two buildings, but that is not advisable if one aims at converting the region eventually because at higher levels these buildings become mutually exclusive). HERDS are typically nomadic building and best used in regions that are supposed to remain nomadic throughout the game. On the other hand the FARMS in nomadic regions slowly increase the "Eastern Tribal" culture in the region, thereby reducing the "Nomadic" one and allowing higher level of these FARMS to be built.

Once the settled culture level raises far enough and the highest level of farms is built (it may require to destroy the competing HERDS building) one can then build the usual M2TW camp-to-city conversion building.

[Dirty Chai]

Thank you!

[Hummer]

Regarding the Pontic reforms.
Are you sure about the Pontic administration government types increasing EI culture?

The pontic administration starts default in the pontic capital. The ETS goes down and EI goes up but I assumed this was due to the fact there is a indigenous military settlement in the capital also. I have played for 120 turns now. The ETS is at 43%, EI is also at 43% and going up as other cultures go down.

In Ani-Kamah, I built a governor general and a military outpost. This settlement is acting the same as the capital. EI is going up and ETS is going down. But again, there is a military outpost. My other cities with a pontic government are not increasing in EI culture. They also don't have a military outpost.

I would argue that the three pontic government types (pontic administration, governor general and sacred estates) does nothing for culture conversion. I would also argue that the military outpost increases EI and the only way to increase EI before reaching the pontic reform is to build the indigenous military outposts.

Has anyone done a really close study of this?
It would be great if someone could check this over. I have not tested this thoroughly.

Cheers

[Ingvarr1]

Pontic government does increase EI (as does the native military colonies), but all those increases are capped. By reading the script one can see that:

Sacred Estates increase EI until 50%
Pontic Adm. (35)
Governor-General (35)
Satrapy (50)
Petty Kingdom (55)
Dynastic Adm. (60)
Other types of pontic governments don't increase culture.

[prosperin]

Is there no script available for the Getai? Their win condition mentions something to that effect I presume from owning all the mountain/native region and building a massive temple to their god of gods at Samzghrfbhgdfhgdbhfgdfjg.

Was the person that was working on them just not finished with the faction?

[Simpelicity]

If doing so does reform them, the script for it isn't with the scripting for other reforms.

[prosperin]

It's probably never finished then, the faction is missing a lot of changes. It seems like most of the eastern and factions of africa got their reforms but the Celtic barbarians dont have any love. ;;

[Simpelicity]

The only celts that got their reforms in time are the pritanoi.

Celts aren't the only unfinished business, far from it. The 4 successor kingdoms (Epirus, Makedon, Seleukia and Ptolemies) don't have any reforms either. Other factions as well.

[prosperin]

The only celts that got their reforms in time are the pritanoi.

Celts aren't the only unfinished business, far from it. The 4 successor kingdoms (Epirus, Makedon, Seleukia and Ptolemies) don't have any reforms either. Other factions as well.

I would presume the celts to all share similar developements, but yeah I guess it makes sense. The iberians wouldn't be able to share the advanced units of the Gaulish friends.

I typically shy away from the big established kingdoms, so I will ask forgiveness on my ignorance there.

[Simpelicity]

Haha, I only played Hayasdan and Boii for significant amounts.

I know who doesn't have a reform because I made a list of those who do

btw celts and successor kingdoms aren't the only unfinished business, everyone's favorite married couple isn't finished either (Rome and Carthage). Bosporos has nothing either, and I'm not sure the lugiones have something or not, it's a little vague.

Note that a lot of the missing reforms are missing because even if they were in it'd make 0 difference because the units they unlock aren't made.

[prosperin]

Mhmm, looking at how far along some of the factions are its clear that a lot of the developement seemed to be pet projects. The brits, which are the celts that are most far along has a different style of text for their government, and advances of it. Though, Im not sure if they had a variety of tribes yet for their government. It's rather interesting the units they have completed. They have slingers, skirmishers, and then slinger-spearmen along with the tribal spearmen and then their upgraded units.

I had thought of over the past few days ways humerous ways to model the units still in developement for factions which have the mechanics to use them. The hoplites with the green pointy hats are the reformed hoplites! That way the battles aren't getting in the way of campaign development.

[Simpelicity]

That's... actually an interesting proposition. What takes the most time to produce is units and more specifically half a dozen accurate skins for them. They could create generic units with just enough distinctiveness to differentiate them from other similar units, as placeholders really until their real units are done, and so start by focusing down the gameplay elements of the mod. And then, as people play the mod, they update it every now and then, with units, descriptions, etc, updating the history side of things.

[Dago Red]

I can confirm the Pontic reforms work as explained in this thread. Having all the necessary cities, save one, and assuming I'd met the other requirements in battles long ago, I waited to see what would happen after my end turn on capturing the last city listed here: Chersonesos. And voila!

[Do not open if you wish the Pontic reform message to remain unknown to you]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Pontic government does increase EI (as does the native military colonies), but all those increases are capped. By reading the script one can see that:

Sacred Estates increase EI until 50%
Pontic Adm. (35)
Governor-General (35)
Satrapy (50)
Petty Kingdom (55)
Dynastic Adm. (60)
Other types of pontic governments don't increase culture.

Great list. ON a related note, I'm confused about how to build the top tier Pontic Basileus building (Dynastic Administration). I have access to Satrap government buildings now (after those reforms triggered) in two locations, including my capital. Obviously I'm not going to make my capital province a satrapy so I looked for what requirement remained for the final government building option to appear -- the only requirement listed in game is 35% Eastern Imperial culture -- which I have!

So there must be another requirement not shown. Is there a population or city wall size requirement ?

[Simpelicity]

;Basilike Patris (Dynastic Administration)
pontos7 city requires factions { f_pontos, } and not building_present govallied and region_religion rel_c 30 and event_counter ecPontos_Imperial 1
{
capability ;;; Recruitment pool: up to 12 * 0.04 from colony buildings, 13 * 0.04 factional troops here
{
recruit_pool "hellenistic chariot scythed" 1 0.08 2 0 requires factions { f_pontos, }
recruit_pool "eastern cavalry khuveshavagan" 1 0.08 2 0 requires factions { f_pontos, }
recruit_pool "eastern cavalry cappadoccian" 1 0.08 2 0 requires factions { f_pontos, }
recruit_pool "eastern cavalry asitaikoi hippakontistai" 1 0.04 1 0 requires factions { f_pontos, }
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry peltastai logades" 1 0.12 3 0 requires factions { f_pontos, }
recruit_pool "eastern infantry cappadoccian tribesmen" 1 0.08 2 0 requires factions { f_pontos, }
recruit_pool "eastern infantry doryphoroi pontikoi" 1 0.08 2 0 requires factions { f_pontos, }
recruit_pool "eastern infantry slinger" 1 0.04 1 0 requires factions { f_pontos, }
law_bonus bonus 2 requires factions { f_pontos, }
farming_level bonus 2
religion_level bonus 1 requires factions { f_pontos, } and not region_religion rel_c 60 and event_counter ecReligionUpdate 1
agent diplomat 1 requires factions { f_pontos, }
agent_limit diplomat 1
recruitment_slots 4 requires factions { f_pontos, }
}
material stone
construction 16
cost 16000
settlement_min city
upgrades

---

settlement_min city? Would that be your problem? That's level 4 (village -> town -> large town -> city)

[Dago Red]

settlement_min city? Would that be your problem? That's level 4 (village -> town -> large town -> city)

That's what I was thinking, even though that requirement isn't listed in-game. However now that you mention it, I do have a city, even one bigger, the "large city" it seems. Just not the biggest walls to go with, and they are not a building option (yet).



Perhaps one must have the massive walls built?

[V.T. Marvin]

Sorry, it is my fault. Pontic administration does nor upgrade to Dynastic administration directly. The Statrapy is a required intermediate step so best solution for you would be to be suspend your disbelief for a while, upgrade to satrapy and immediately afterwards to the top level. Sorry and thank you for pointing out this problem - it will be fixed next time.

[Dago Red]

Sorry, it is my fault. Pontic administration does nor upgrade to Dynastic administration directly. The Statrapy is a required intermediate step so best solution for you would be to be suspend your disbelief for a while, upgrade to satrapy and immediately afterwards to the top level. Sorry and thank you for pointing out this problem - it will be fixed next time.

Aha! No worries, thanks for clearing it up (suspension of disbelief engaged!). I'm glad to see most of it working pretty well afterall. Once we know what's happening here and what steps to take to try and achieve an imperial reform, the gameplay deepens quite a bit. I'll let you know how it turns out.

[Dago Red]

Update: As you said, once the Satrapy was established the Dynastic Administration became available. I now have one in the capital (with another possible in Trapezia). However, the mechanic seems to be working (better/as intended?) in another province. Gazaka, once captured from Hayasdan, showed both options at once, without having the satrapy as a pre-requisite.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You can see several government options here, including both the satrapy and dynastic building (first two, unfinished images).

I should note that there was an irregularity in which I was building a governor general in Gazaka, when the reforms were triggered. It took me a few turns (lots of things going on) to notice, but the Governor General gov building was halted at 2 turns left to build -- as soon as the reforms triggered it stopped construction. I can only assume this government type is no longer available. Once I removed it from the queue, I saw the options shown above.

I've since established Sacred Estates there, and now only the dynastic administration shows as a possible next step, with satrapy removed.

[pala89]

seleucid new soldier of reform cataphracts is there.How can ı do?

[pala89]

who will answer this question